Need help from conformation savvy folks

[Amanda]

I don't get to pick, but I'd like to know what I am looking at here. Anything, good or bad, stick out to you?

[Amanda]

Black boy

[UpwardDog]

I am not good at evaluating structure. I would ask Jodi what she thinks.

[connie]

Ditto, plus I am clueless about the breed standard here.

I know -- take them both!

[Amanda]

Jodi will look soon. I sent her an email. Lynn's friend judged them as Boxers and says she likes Mr. green. We shall see.

[QBert]

nothing jumps out at me really - puppies are tough to evaluate, so much can change, and I don't know the breed well enough to have a clue what and where they're most likely to change significantly. I like Black Collar overall - his balance, his general type - but I wonder if he may have an overdone head and overly deep chest as an adult. I think Green has a better tailset, and looks to maybe have better feet at this age - I wonder if he may be a bit more square than is ideal (which would appeal to a Boxer person's eye) but also suspect his vertical proportions (leg length:depth of chest:overall height) may be better than Black as adults.

Both look like very promising all-rounders, typey and appealing!

[Amanda]

Thank you for your input! What does "overdone head" mean?

[QBert]

Thank you for your input! What does "overdone head" mean?

In this case, by "overdone", I suspect this pup may end up having a head (particularly face) that isn't wrong but isn't moderate either - just slightly exaggerated, not clean and tight. ("The bearded lips lay close to the jaw as tightly as possible.") I'm betting he'll have a very masculine look, very appealing, but reading through the AKC standard, the words "medium" and "moderate" appear so many times in so many aspects... and the other pup looks to have a more 'moderate' head. however, I reiterate, I have only limited experience with the breed, and zero experience with WHV puppies - so I could be completely off the mark in guessing how they'll develop. It's just as likely that the cleaner headed pup may mature to look a little bitchy while the fleshier-lipped boy grows into his skin and ends up ideal.

[Calypso]

I can tell you from my very limited experience with heads - Pixel has a masculine head, more masculine than most American bred DSFs. I don't know if his head is any more correct than the dogs he's gone against, but he's taken Best of Breed over dogs who go on to win BOB or Group or BIS at shows that he's not at. We could be extremely lucky with judges, but it does seem like a male with a beefy head will make more of an impact. Not that you should go for impact if the other head is more correct. If that makes any sense at all. Like I said, my sample size is so limited it may not even matter.

[QBert]

I can tell you from my very limited experience with heads - Pixel has a masculine head, more masculine than most American bred DSFs. I don't know if his head is any more correct than the dogs he's gone against, but he's taken Best of Breed over dogs who go on to win BOB or Group or BIS at shows that he's not at. We could be extremely lucky with judges, but it does seem like a male with a beefy head will make more of an impact. Not that you should go for impact if the other head is more correct. If that makes any sense at all. Like I said, my sample size is so limited it may not even matter.

^ When you're going AKC, the 'overdone' is often going to be the superior show dog in all-breed competition under all-rounder judges, where the more moderate may be more likely to be rewarded at breed or Group specialties or breeder/judges. AKC as a culture tends to love the overdone, overexaggerated, overstylized... UKC the focus tends to swing a little more toward the good using dog.

[Amanda]

I think I like the overdone head then. Lol. I tend to really prefer the blocky, masculine heads. Either way, I think I should end up with a good looking pup. It's amazing how much they have grown and changed. Green was a scrawny guy at 3 weeks and then most group pictures I saw he was eating. Now he's the biggest one.

[QBert]

they're both lovely pups! Black would be my pick, based on -photos alone, unless he was seriously lacking in coat quality.

[whiteboxerboy]

Boy Howdy those top lines are incredible. Ha ha, I keep coming back to look at them.

Fannie wants to know if she can haz some of that! LOL

[Amanda]

We got green! Black was chosen by a woman that has shown dogs for 35+ years. GSPs were her original breed and she has had flat coats for the last several years. She lives pretty close and has offered to help is out with showing and how to present the dog. I think she was really glad that I am thinking of showing so that she has some competition to gain points. The other male here is finished and there are just two other females so she would have to travel a fair amount to find competition. She was really nice on the phone and she's closer than the other breeder so that's nice too. Lots of learning in my future!

[UpwardDog]

Congrats! Does he have a name yet?

[QBert]

yay Green puppy! Although I like Black a lot, I'm a sucker for pretty feet on a dog, and I like Green's feet better, so hooray for FOOTIES!

[Trademarkbark]

I'm late to this, but I would have picked green pup. I like his shoulders better, the fact he's longer in the hock, and he has more refined face. Congrats and good luck!