Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

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yintzy
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Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby yintzy » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:48 am

I'm trying to keep a lot of this off of facebook (and I hear there is a resurgence of ODO) so I figured, I'd touch base with my friends here. Some of you probably know, I have 4 dogs now. My newest is Colt. He's a 2.5 year old border collie from the same breeder and lines as Shasta. He's rightfully earned the nickname, Evel Knieval and has had a rough childhood because he's a wild boy dog and oh so my heart dog - I've never been so bonded to a dog before. I digress.

I 'think' he has chronic pancreatitis. Here are the chain of events...

1) Nov 2017 - vomiting, refusal of food, lethargy, pain I took him to my vet for observation and he doesn't do any diagnostics but with observation and physical symptoms diagnoses mild pancreatitis. He was on Fromm Gold at the time and his coat was looking dull. I gave him a small (like really small) amount of coconut oil in three meals and then he got sick. So we think that was the culprit.

2) June 2018 - refusal of food, vomiting blood, lethargy, pain (but he wasn't touched like he was previously. I called my vet who is really far away but he's also a friend. I find out he's not seeing patients anymore - he's working on his business rather than in the business - he has three hospitals and his new vets need training. So rather than driving all that way, I take him to a new vet hospital near my house and they have very good reviews. They had availability and got his records from my vet and he has 105.5 temperature. They take blood and don't see anything alarming. They give him fluids and give him some anti-nausea drugs and send him home with metronidazole and ask me to monitor his temp and to bring him back if it doesn't get better. Two days later, he is not improved - he's eating a little but still with a high fever and generalized pain. I take him back and they do a tick screen (we don't have ticks in Austin but if I lived anywhere else I would have agreed with it) and we do a lepto test (okay my bill is up to $900) and I don't think he has leapt but we have to figure this out. The vets started talking about Addisons and cancer and want me to go to a specialist. They gave me doxy but later that day, his fever broke independent of the doxy but I gave him doxy for 14 days and he was fine. I never went to the specialist. I figured it's a one off - I did ask them through all of this, the following questions: Is this related to his pancreatitis episode in nov. - I brought this up twice or more and the answer is no like they didn't consider this. I asked about poisoning - did squirrels chuck de-con laced food in our yard. No. Does he have a blockage? No. So, fever of unknown origin. I'm not going to even mention about the fact that I signed him up for insurance two days prior but the waiting period was Aug. 1 so now we have a pre-existing condition damn it.

3) This week... I leave the house at 6AM to go to work and get on a plane at 10AM for a work trip to LA. Hubby texts me at night, Colt won't eat. He's lethargic and painful, but nothing like the last two times. Crap, he can't handle vet emergencies - he's a hubby. His work schedule is crazy and it's a new job. I called the new vet hospital in the AM and they have no appointments available (sigh, this is common in Austin), and they said we should just bring him to the specialist (this is where Merrel had her $6500 surgery for bloat and I don't wanna go but will if I have to.) So I asked them for some ID food and told my hubby to take him to the emergency clinic if he feels like he needs to go and to pick up the ID from the vet. So I call my other vet whom I love and decide I will see one of their other doctors if they will do things like Addison's tests, etc. The receptionist informed me that Brad (my vet friend) is working on Saturday and she made room for us!!!! By the time I got home Friday afternoon, Colt had improved.

Brad was perplexed that the other clinic put me through the ringer and did not do a pancreatitis test. He said, yes, it sounds like Addisons but the fever doesn't fit. He's taking the Occam's Razor approach that this is likely chronic pancreatitis. We did a test yesterday but it was negative. He didn't take too much in that reading since his symptoms were mild and he's no longer symptomatic. But also since he improved with the ID both times, he also thought pancreatitis. So we are going with that ($130 including food) unless he has any other issues. I need to feed him a kibble and canned. We opted for the low fat GI from Royal Canin. I'm not super crazy about the ingredients but the SD has corn gluten meal in the kibble as the first ingredient. I ordered some on Chewy.com **Also, the last two times, he had some cheese or turkey hot dogs in training. He's had these in the past with no issues but I'm suspecting these as being the catalyst for the last two episodes. I don't use much food in training because he usually wants a toy but I kind of have to sometimes and he spits out regular dog treats.

Here are my questions/concerns:
1) He gets 1/2 scoop of nupro - I forgot to ask the vet if he can have it.
2) I've been giving him geneflora but not sure if there is a better digestive enzyme for him. I know this is important for pancreatic issues.
3) I know that these prescription diets aren't great but really if this helps, I don't care but really why!!!! Why don't the good companies make some special formulas - no I'm not going to cook for him - it's too tricky, especially with this condition, if this is indeed what it is. Does anyone know of a highly digestible, low fat 5% ish fat food?
4) He's a thin guy. At 49 lbs, he's lean and in good shape. He's 44 now so he's lost weight. I'm concerned that a low fat diet won't be enough for him. The vet said it has enough calories but still... and then is his coat going to be dull? I don't know, I have concerns.
5) Once I feel like he is stable, I will look for something else - if anyone has suggestions.
6) I'm going to Croatia in less than 4 weeks and poor hubby is home with the dogs. What should I do for him in case something happens. I have a CC that he can use, is there anything else?

Thanks for any thoughts.

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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby SherriA » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:25 am

I have a dog in my Senior program that has chronic pancreatitis. We finally switched him to prescription food because the episodes were becoming more frequent and lasting longer, and it's helped. You know I fought that one as long as I could, but if that's what it takes to help him, then that's what it takes.

FWIW, the vet who works with our rescue said digestive enzymes and probiotics are not necessary for pancreatitis. We specifically asked her about that several times and she was was clear that that they're not indicated. She said there are some suggestiong that vitamin E and B vitamins can help, but it may also be coincidental. She said keeping them lean is key, along with low fat food (absolutely no table scraps, and even a single wrong treat could set him off).

If you're concerned about extra calories, can you add some carbs - pasta, rice, etc?
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yintzy
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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby yintzy » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:16 am

Thanks, Sherri. This last time, he had had maybe 10 small cubes of turkey hot dog with the fat nuked out of it and he had a minor episode. The problem is I’d like him to gain 2 lbs. I did add non fat yogurt for some calories. I will definitely add pasta for some carbs. I also hear egg whites are fine but that doesn’t equal calories.

This is really super helpful. I seriously had no idea how serious pancreatitis is. But after how sick he was last time, I don’t want to take any chances. I do hope that six months or so from now, I can get him on the sensitive stomach food that isn’t quite as low fat. He’s still quite a young dog and hopefully no underlying reasons for it.

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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby maxs_mommy » Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:26 pm

We're in the same boat with calories/fats after a pancreatitis flare that led to a sleep-over at the e-vet. The vet is right that adrenal diseases and pancreatitis seem to travel in parallel paths. Max eats primal raw which is 14% or less crude fat with extra ground beef, boiled to death, for calories and so far we haven't had too many issues. Colt's case seems more sensitive than Max's which sucks, I'm sorry
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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby MaisyPancakes » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:22 pm

I'm so sorry you're going through this with Colt! Could you possibly just give a bit more of the Rx food you know has been helping him? Smaller, more frequent meals tend to be helpful for all kinds of issues, including pancreatitis. MP did 3x/day meals for*ever*, and now Minnow, because she's too skinny, too!

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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby yintzy » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:20 pm

Maxs_mommy. Sorry you are dealing with this for Max too. I just never thought that a mild case of pancreatitis from having some coconut oil (geeze, my other dogs are fine with it) has turned into this. He’s just a young lad too. Good to know about the adrenal issues and To know about Primal. I just hope I can ween him off of the prescription diet.

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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby yintzy » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:25 pm

MaisyPancakes
The multiple meals sounds like a good plan. He’s too small to eat 4 c of food a day. I can’t even imagine the poo that’s going to happen too! If I do need to feed him that much I will try letting him have first and second breakfast.

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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby maxs_mommy » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:15 pm

Just a note that liver levels and then gallbladder levels seem to go weird with adrenal diseases IME and since the gallbladder helps process out fats, when it doesn't function well the pancreas bears the brunt and takes a hit. Too many repeated hits from fat and inflammation takes over and you're in trouble. Your ALT and birriblium (sp?) may be out of whack and, coupled with poor coat and weight loss I'd check the adrenal glands for addisons. When we found and addressed Max's Cushing's it helped the pancreas. It wasn't a cure but the flares fell dramatically. Have you tried Pred? If so, did it help him overall?
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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby yintzy » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:41 am

Wow. That's really i interesting. Addisons's has been mentioned. He wanted to wait to see if he has any more episodes before testing. We are going to regroup when I get back from vacation. It would make sense that it's two pronged and that I noticed the dry cost which prompted the coconut oil which triggered the episode.

I also found Wellness Limited Ingredient salmon and potato which will have slightly over 8% fat with the dry matter calculator. I will keep him in the RC low fat for a month or two then try to seen him into that if I can't find a better alternative.

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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby yintzy » Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:24 pm

Ugh, just got the shipment of food. The kibble smells awful.

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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby SherriA » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:57 am

Fish based foods always smell awful to me. Weird, because I love fish, but fish dog food is gross smelling.
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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby emmas_mom » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:13 am

Kangaroo is low fat and is becoming much more widely available. Raynes makes a good quality one, as does Zignature, and there are others. I believe the Raynes canned is 7% fat. I initially had some problems with quality control (received some cans that were half broth/congealed fat) but they corrected the problem and gave me a full case free. It's expensive though. Maggie is on raw now, so I haven't looked into it for many months.
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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby catherinec » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:51 am

I have nothing to add, just want to wish you guys luck on the new food and have to agree, some fish-based dog food smells revolting!

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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby yintzy » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:46 am

The new food isn't fish. It's the Royal Canin low fat kibble and canned. Horrible ingredients but I hear dogs with chronic pancreatitis issued do so well in it. I'm planning to stabilize him. Then put him on the Wellness. But the horrible ingredients=horrible smell. One thing I learned is about dry matter calculator. You can't just go on the fat content. You need to take into account the moisture level. I think the moisture content is the divisor. So some foods appearing low in fat are actually super high. We did talk about kangaroo. One of my co-workers dogs are on it. I guess it's like venison but I don't want him to eat a marsupial. They're so cute!

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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby emmas_mom » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:46 am

Non-marsupial option that is low fat is elk, but I don't know if it is available in kibble/canned options. I get raw elk for Maggie, and I'm also seeing lots of other lowfat options in raw food around here - ostrich, rabbit, emu, alpaca, goat and, of course, venison. I've seen a real change in the raw food market here, and the kibble/canned market is slowly following suit by expanding their protein choices too. Just be sure to read the fine print - some of those companies are using labels that suggest a lowfat or novel protein like kangaroo, and in the tiny print of the ingredient list, I've found pork or beef or other proteins that are not low fat and that can trigger pancreatic or allergy attacks.
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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby yintzy » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:18 pm

Heck, I can probably get venison and goat from people o know. I will keep this for when I’m ready. I’m not going raw though. Too many dogs.

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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby yintzy » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:23 pm

So you know when you don’t realize something is off with your dog until they are feeling better? I had that with Zoe when she went on thyroid medication. Colt is running around the yard at warp speeds and has his naughty pants on. He must have been feeling cruddy for months.

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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby MaisyPancakes » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:23 am

Yay for super fast naughty pants! :D

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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby maxs_mommy » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:52 am

So glad he's feeling better!
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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby JudyL » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:34 am

Happy to hear that he's feeling better! Do you think this is from the change in food already?

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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby yintzy » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:15 am

Jusy, I do think it's from the food change. Also my fears about calories also seem unfounded because he has gained some weight. He's eating about three cups and 3/4 can with some fat free cottage cheese or yogurt. Over three meals a day, it's not the obscene amount of food i thought I'd have to feed him and he likes it.

I appreciate all the good thoughts and advise. This definitely helped.

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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby SherriA » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:36 am

That's great news Dawn!
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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby yintzy » Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:51 am

I just wanted to update about Colt. He had another episode in October.It's pretty frightening to see my you bc so lethargic and in pain. We have a plan. If he has another event, we are getting him in for an ultrasound within 24 hours. The goal is to prevent a flare up. He has anti-nausea meds and antacids if I see an issue. I've also decided to take him off the Royal Cabin since it did not prevent a flare up and he just was losing weight and not looking great. I've successfully switched him to Nutrisource senior grain free turkey. It has the most calories i can find with the lowest fat and fiber content. I'm also adding HK fish to his meal. He's had gained weight and his energy level is through the roof. Hopefully he will do okay one this. It's been exactly a year since his first bout of this.

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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby yintzy » Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:51 am

I just wanted to update about Colt. He had another episode in October.It's pretty frightening to see my you bc so lethargic and in pain. We have a plan. If he has another event, we are getting him in for an ultrasound within 24 hours. The goal is to prevent a flare up. He has anti-nausea meds and antacids if I see an issue. I've also decided to take him off the Royal Cabin since it did not prevent a flare up and he just was losing weight and not looking great. I've successfully switched him to Nutrisource senior grain free turkey. It has the most calories i can find with the lowest fat and fiber content. I'm also adding HK fish to his meal. He's had gained weight and his energy level is through the roof. Hopefully he will do okay one this. It's been exactly a year since his first bout of this.

yintzy
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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby yintzy » Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:51 am

I just wanted to update about Colt. He had another episode in October.It's pretty frightening to see my you bc so lethargic and in pain. We have a plan. If he has another event, we are getting him in for an ultrasound within 24 hours. The goal is to prevent a flare up. He has anti-nausea meds and antacids if I see an issue. I've also decided to take him off the Royal Cabin since it did not prevent a flare up and he just was losing weight and not looking great. I've successfully switched him to Nutrisource senior grain free turkey. It has the most calories i can find with the lowest fat and fiber content. I'm also adding HK fish to his meal. He's had gained weight and his energy level is through the roof. Hopefully he will do okay one this. It's been exactly a year since his first bout of this.

yintzy
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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby yintzy » Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:51 am

I just wanted to update about Colt. He had another episode in October.It's pretty frightening to see my you bc so lethargic and in pain. We have a plan. If he has another event, we are getting him in for an ultrasound within 24 hours. The goal is to prevent a flare up. He has anti-nausea meds and antacids if I see an issue. I've also decided to take him off the Royal Cabin since it did not prevent a flare up and he just was losing weight and not looking great. I've successfully switched him to Nutrisource senior grain free turkey. It has the most calories i can find with the lowest fat and fiber content. I'm also adding HK fish to his meal. He's had gained weight and his energy level is through the roof. Hopefully he will do okay one this. It's been exactly a year since his first bout of this.

yintzy
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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby yintzy » Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:57 am

Sorry about the quadruple post. I dNt seem to delete them.

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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby JudyL » Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:46 pm

Fingers crossed for you and Colt that you've hit on a good combination with the food and HK. Yay! for him gaining weight and having high energy! Your plan for the u/s sounds like a good one.

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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby emmas_mom » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:57 am

Glad to hear Colt's energy is back and he is gaining weight. I think the plan for an ultrasound right after another episode is a good one - here's hoping it is never needed!
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Re: Hi All! - What's going on with Colt

Postby yintzy » Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:06 am

So far so good. I will keep crossing my fingers. I'm glad we have a plan about being pro-active. I've taken to taking jars of baby food turkey on our walks for rewards. they only cost a dollar and easy to open and close a little jar!


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