MP's got the tick disease(s)!

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MaisyPancakes
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Re: MP's got the tick disease(s)!

Postby MaisyPancakes » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:09 am

Thanks so much, you guys! Lisa, we ran the test on Wed so I didn't get your extra push for the Anaplasmosis test (nor a response from Protatek) until later. Protatek just said to run the IFA versus the SNAP; which wasn't really my question so either they misread my question or they just wanted me to run the IFA no matter what. Either way, my vet's rationale was that since we were running the C6, if we were to re-treat based on the C6, then it would also affect the Anaplasmosis...and she wasn't even sure then if we would re-treat, as apparently it's not a go-to thing to do, regardless of titer levels, and she preferred to make treatment calls based on "the whole dog" instead. I really like this about her (she is by no means anti-data, but she just places different emphases on them) and my rehab vet, so I am hoping this will do!!

On a good note, we've since heard back about the CBC which looked good to my vet (platelets are back up; I don't have the actual numbers yet, though)! On a frustrating note, we *still* haven't gotten back the C6 results. :/ We sent it in on Wed! My vet who does not usually work on Fri nor Sat had to call in to check for me, and was equally frustrated to not have the labs back. If all looks OK to her, our plan was to washout the MEtacam over the next few days and start the Galliprant.

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Re: MP's got the tick disease(s)!

Postby MaisyPancakes » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:49 pm

I haven't talked to my vet yet (she comes over soon for acupuncture), but my rehab vet had talked to her earlier and said that they think she should do another round of Minocycline based on results—so I'm guessing they got it back and she's still Lymey. :( I kind of wish we were using Docy instead since we seem to be the only ones doing Minocycline. Will talk to her about that, too. Arghhhhhhh!!!!! Super sad. :(

In the meantime, she's gotten some kind of an injury or flareup and is very owie around the neck area. She could barely walk the first day, and is much better now, but is totally sucking. Ice seems to help. We upped the Metacam for a bit since increased Gabapentin made her super wobbly (even more pronounced when she's owie and has to compensate). Kind of a tough week. :(

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Re: MP's got the tick disease(s)!

Postby MaisyPancakes » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:38 pm

ETA: Apparently, her C6 came back twice as high as what they consider "under control" (which is 30; she was 60). So, we are doing Doxy this time (my vet was like, why the hell not, because one of the concerns was cost and availability; neither were an issue via Costco).

Her injury/flareup is at least not worse, but she is just not herself. :( I do worry about setbacks with old dogs because it's hard for them to bounce back.

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Re: MP's got the tick disease(s)!

Postby LisaT_II » Thu May 04, 2017 3:04 pm

I'm really sorry to hear about needing to retreat. It's possible that the flareup of the neck is related, but no way to know.

What is the dosage of doxy that you are giving? How long will you be treating for?

The C6 is a funny test. Successful treatment is if it becomes less than 1/2 of what it was when she was initially tested. Without the initial test, you don't have a way to measure that. So one question is whether she seemed to get worse after the Mino was stopped. I find it takes just shy of a couple of weeks to start seeing those signs, but that could definitely vary.

The reason for testing the Ana~ is if you get the lyme under control, that doesn't mean that you have the Ana~ under control. And the other way too, if you have the Ana~ under control, you might have a lyme flare up and decide to try amoxicillin (which doesn't work on Ana~). I think it sounds odd that protatek would have recommended an IFA for lyme, I'm wondering if they didn't understand your question, but sounds like it's moot at this point.

I honestly don't know how well these tick herbs work, but I'll pass this along: http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/ubb ... #Post61359
Max-n-Indy

Info regarding Ticks and Tick Diseases
http://tinyurl.com/3arfn6r

Forum for the GSD enthusiast!
germanshepherdhome.net/forum

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MaisyPancakes
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Re: MP's got the tick disease(s)!

Postby MaisyPancakes » Thu May 04, 2017 4:05 pm

Thanks, Lisa! We are doing doxy at 100mg BID for 30 days. It was the same for Mino. (Maybe it was 28 days?) During mino, i didn't see much difference that couldn't be attributable to anything else like weather and mood, positive or negative. :/ she is so gimpy and everything in varying ways that it's pretty hard to tell. I have about 7 pros—vets and techs—who keep close tabs on her and none of us could really decipher the symptoms (active or improving). Neck flare up was definitely an event that occurred but who knows if it were exacerbated by ticks. :/ she's much better now, as in less painful, but so much less mobile in general. Rehab vet said everything bad is all worsened and prolonged by aging, and that she is doing ok considering.

My reg vet's thing with anaplasmosis was that if platelets are ok,she is not going to worry about it. She did consult others (pathologists and other vets) and they seemed to think this is ok...and made decisions based on the whole MP, like her age, her other difficulties, etc. I do realize we didn't do the all-out tests and I prob should have insisted, but then again, we run blood work pretty frequently and hopefully at the least we will know with the platelets re anaplasmosis. Anyway, moot point indeed. I was super clear with my question to the Protatek so I don't know if they had a stock reply they copy pasted in bits or what. I got their reply too late anyway, unfortunately.

Apparently we retest the C6 in 6 months to see. But for whatever reason I was told that they use the number 30 as a generalized baseline of some sort, and she was 60, so are re-treating. I believe the thought behind the retreating was that whatever that may transpire due to insufficient treatment would have been worse than whatever the effects of doxy.

Thanks so much for all your help and info and i am sorry we keep not doing what you suggest! ☹️

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LisaT_II
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Re: MP's got the tick disease(s)!

Postby LisaT_II » Thu May 04, 2017 6:53 pm

Oh, please don't apologize, I'm sorry for adding to your stress! All these dogs are so individual and you just have to do your best, because there is no sure way through this.

The 30 is the number that on initial test determines whether the dog would benefit from treatment or not (I personally would test any new infection, but that's my own personal choice). After the dog is treated, depending on where the C6 started, and depending on when the dog is tested, the tick list has always gone by the old standard that the C6 should drop by 50%. So if the C6 started at 200, the expectation is that after treatment it should be at no more than 100. I just briefly tried to find the Idexx guidelines for that, but couldn't find them quickly. I did find this paper that said after 6 months the test subjects C6 had decreased 68% and then at 1 year decreased by 83% ( http://cvi.asm.org/content/15/1/115.full ). So the target after treatment depends on what the value was when you started treatment. This is really my only disappointment, that your vet didn't run the diagnostics at the beginning, because it really is hard to figure out what is causing what symptoms.

And I know it's *really* hard with senior dogs. With mine, through the years, I could treat their tick disease every so many years. As they aged, those years got closer together. In the end, they were just permanently on doxy because I could never figure out a way to make their lives as good off of doxy as they were on doxy. So we end up doing whatever we can to make their lives the best we can, and I know that you are doing that.
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Info regarding Ticks and Tick Diseases
http://tinyurl.com/3arfn6r

Forum for the GSD enthusiast!
germanshepherdhome.net/forum


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