Wit's. End.

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maxs_mommy
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Wit's. End.

Postby maxs_mommy » Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:04 pm

Things have been steadily going downhill at body de Max. First off, we have a chiro appt. on Monday with the vet, so we are going. The house soiling has not stopped with the trilostane as I hoped it would, and how it did on the anipryl. Pee and sometimes poop every night. Tonight he also dug through the trash after dinner (after his stomach was turned "on"). Trash all over the kitchen. It doesn't look like he cared for carrot peels or leek bits but butter wrappers and flour sacks were destroyed. The trash is up on another bin and he normally doesn't bother it. Also, we have back end shaking (reminds me of Parkinsons?) and I'm noticing scissoring on his right side. Neuro? He's also refusing to walk, even during daylight, routes he's walked for the last 7 years. We're doing eye drops once a day, doxy bid, niacinamide 3x daily for his eyes along with 20 mg trilostane bid. I'm thinking cbc on Monday to check his kidneys. What else should I be looking at? I'm going to ask for a cbc on Monday for kidney function. Other testing? I'm going to build him some belly bands because I am soooo over this. He will not crate so that's out. My wood floors thank you in advance.
Max "the ninja"-American Cocker Spaniel G-day 3/2009
Charlie "the middle child"- Orange Tabby G-day 7/2005
Sadie - Grey Tabby 9/1996-8/4/2012 RIP

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Sabine
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Re: Wit's. End.

Postby Sabine » Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:48 am

Poor Max. :(

Be sure that your bloodwork includes SDMA. It can show early kidney disease even when other markers are still in the normal range.
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MaisyPancakes
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Re: Wit's. End.

Postby MaisyPancakes » Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:29 pm

I'm sorry, so hard. :( I always run urinalysis at the same time as bloodwork, just as a thing. Might be worth doing. MP has some shakiness/wobbliness in the rear that my rehab vet has decided is basically a normal course of aging, exacerbated by all the compensation she has to do to protect the owie front left leg. She'd cross them here and there when she's more fatigued, and can be very tippy sometimes, too. It looks like the end of the world but was reassured it ain't so. However, if he's pretty fit otherwise, I would maybe ask a vet you like if they'd suggest neuro next. There's also some tests you can do (like knuckling the rear feet and watch for correction), but they're not THAT helpful because the response can be behavioral (e.g., a compliant/pleaser dog like MP would keep her foot knuckled down longer because I put it that way). Can you hazard a guess why he's suddenly against walking? Hang in there.

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Amanda
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Re: Wit's. End.

Postby Amanda » Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:26 pm

I'm sorry Max isn't up to snuff. I don't have anything wise to share or recommend, but just hope you can get to the bottom of his issues. Getting old isn't for the faint of heart, that's for sure. Landis commiserates.

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JudyL
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Re: Wit's. End.

Postby JudyL » Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:39 am

Nothing to add on the testing that others haven't already mentioned. Does he still enjoy going outside in general other than walks, or is being outside anytime also problematic? I'm wondering if his eyes are sensitive or painful in the cooler and drier air.

When Chi would have a flare up of the corneal tearing and ulcerations, she first was only shivering and I thought she was cold, but then it progressed to running to hide in the bedroom when she came back inside. When I was still able to walk her I also noticed during this period that she was holding her head slightly to the side and her whole body was curved in a slight "c" as she walked. She loved being outside and never refused, but it was clearly painful for her.

ETA - do you think the niacinamide is helping? I don't recall the condition you are using this for, was it autoimmune related? Remember I told you about the connection to dry eyes in humans with its use?

Sorry about this with Max. I hope you and the vets can figure out what is causing this.

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LisaT_II
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Re: Wit's. End.

Postby LisaT_II » Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:31 pm

I guess one question is whether things became any better or worse on the meds. They may or may not be helping.

This does sound neuro, and different abx get at different neuro things. As an example, doxy won't get at neospora or toxoplasmosis.

I hope the bloodwork gave you some kind of clue, it's so tough to try to figure this stuff out :(
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Re: Wit's. End.

Postby connie » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:52 am

Oh yes, belly bands, also pee pads and also Bona wood floor cleaning products. :( I have one dog, Dee, who was apparently paper-trained as a young dog and will not wake me at night if she needs to potty, but will go on a pee pad that is placed near the living-room door. So that, and generally cleanup of same, is now part of my routine, which was NOT my idea. :banghead:

For old dogs, I don't know anything to do but build routines around their quirks and disabilities, and sometimes that's nearly impossible.

I find the refusal to walk on familiar routes interesting, because my sister's senior rescue Bearded Collie is doing that. There is no shifting him once he has taken against a walk route, and we have no idea WTF is going on there. Oliver is in good physical health, but the quirks he has had since he came to live with my sister at age 7 have intensified over the 5 years he's been with her.

Have you tried Chlomicalm for him? Once you sort through what he's currently taking and see if any of it should be discontinued, maybe consider adding this? It's used for SA quite a lot, and my vet also uses it for symptoms of senility or canine dementia. https://www.drugs.com/pro/clomicalm.html

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maxs_mommy
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Re: Wit's. End.

Postby maxs_mommy » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:59 pm

So the blood work came back. All looks "normal" for a cushings dog (high cholesterol, high alk phos) except his sodium is low but potassium is fine, which usually indicates an addison's reaction. I've been adding salt because his ACTH numbers look spot on and no symptoms are being controlled. His vet has offered to consult with the internal med guy at blue pearl about possibly adding the anipryl back in as symptom control but that probably won't happen asap. They're pretty full until christmas and I know they're closed between christmas and new years.

I need to build him belly bands over the weekend, I just haven't gotten to it. My mom has some chux left over from my dad that I need to get, he avoids pee pads like the plague, I think it's the smell. I did get some cheap microfiber hand towels at costco that he will use, barely, so that's something.

Interesting about the walk routes, he's decided that the blocks surrounding our house are scary and I wonder if it's the raccoons that I know are living in the storm drains. He will walk if we drive him somewhere else but no amount of faking him out works. He'll go outside to potty but has never been one to hang out outside, especially without his people. Toys are meh, his energy peters out pretty quickly. He may be a bird dog by breeding but retrieving has never been his strong suit when surrounded by smells. We retrieve, he's more of a pointer to our throws.
Max "the ninja"-American Cocker Spaniel G-day 3/2009
Charlie "the middle child"- Orange Tabby G-day 7/2005
Sadie - Grey Tabby 9/1996-8/4/2012 RIP

connie
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Re: Wit's. End.

Postby connie » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:26 am

You can make DIY pee pads by putting newspaper down over a plastic liner of some kind. Also I use DIY belly bands: a long strip of soft fabric (old sheet or t-shirt is good) holding an incontinence pad strategically placed, tied in a bow on top of the dog's back at the hips. Never had a dog object to that, so maybe Max won't either. Maybe. LOL!


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