Protein sources for joints

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Amanda
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Protein sources for joints

Postby Amanda » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:28 am

Long story but I'm conversing with a Finnish woman that has a dog similar to Zeke that she managed to restore hips on. She suggested a chicken based senior formula for Zeke to lower available energy. And she said no red meat because it eats the joint. He's currently on a beef/pork formula because he was so hot on the chicken one. So I'm considering a switch to a fish weight management one. Any red flags?

Kathleen
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Re: Protein sources for joints

Postby Kathleen » Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:29 am

Are you thinking home prepared or store bought? I've noticed now that I am working at the store, many dogs sort of get over the fish based foods after a few months and refuse to eat them.

UpwardDog
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Re: Protein sources for joints

Postby UpwardDog » Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:03 pm

Red meat eats the joint? That seems like a rather bizarre claim. I haven't come across anything that shows one protein source to be better than another for joints in dogs. I would want to see that substantiated before I'd eliminate it completely.

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MaisyPancakes
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Re: Protein sources for joints

Postby MaisyPancakes » Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:46 pm

By "hot" on the chicken, do you mean from the TCM perspective? And, does the lady think red meat "eats" the joint because of the inflammatory effects some meats have shown in humans (I think this was in context of auto-immune type situations, however)? If that's so, then chicken is also usually included in the inflammatory category (and actually even higher on some scales than red meat), and dairy is almost always considered super bad (some say even goat milk, despite it being low-to-no casein). The typical anti-inflammatory line of thought eventually leads one towards vegetarian/vegan diets, at least for humans. But, in dogs, I thought they've found that most plant oils can be highly inflammatory, especially when compared to animal-based fats. Can't win! ;)

I'm not really updated on commercial foods, but I do wonder about the using senior (or non-puppy) formulas on a puppy—because dogs have different (i.e., more than just caloric) nutritional needs at different stages of life (the mineral requirements shift quite a bit as they age, IIRC), and I kind of worry that he'd be off-kilter in something or another if you choose a senior diet. However, I seem to recall that commercial foods are way over-supplemented anyway, and that the only difference among puppy/adult/senior foods tend to be caloric—so, if both of those are true, it maybe not be such a big deal? (I am guessing the fish weight management one you're considering is for adults?)

I wonder if you could specify what your goal is—like, reduce inflammation, suppress growth (not sure how one does this w/non-custom diet without creating other deficits), promote this and that—that might make it easier to prioritize what kinds of ingredients you choose for what purpose. Kind of as a side note, some people (usually western herbalists) rely on foods with mild, natural diuretic properties (say, burdock) as an important component of anti-inflammatories (they can help flush out byproducts of inflammation), too.

Sorry not much specific help!

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Amanda
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Re: Protein sources for joints

Postby Amanda » Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:30 pm

Some research I have done shows some possible links between red meat and arthritis. The claim being elimination of red meat helps reduce arthritis symptoms. Though it seems more linked to rheumatoid arthritis than other forms. I don't think we will eliminate red meat forever but maybe a couple rounds of the fish based food will allow him to decrease some available energy while taking out the beef in case that is helpful. It so happened that the weight management formula was fish based in the line of foods I buy right now. I just wasn't 100% sure a weight management food was appropriate. I don't want to reduce his protein too low because our goal right now is muscle building. We go to the rehab dr on Monday for a game plan. Thinking maybe a switch to the fish based kibble (not homecooked- I am not that ambitious right now) and I've added a glucosamine supplement that includes Hyaluronic (sp?) Acid, and also giving him in separate supplements- extra salmon oil, MSM, vit E and vit C.

Nana- your post popped up while I was typing and it is helpful. I remember chicken skin in particular being inflammatory now that you mention it. And yes "hot" as in TCM. He is still spunky but not frantic/wild like he was. Maturity maybe or diet? Who knows.

I often feel like the more research I do, the more lost I become. The rehab vet wants a list of his diet/supplements so she may be able to help me pin down some nutrition too.


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