Bilious vomiting syndrom

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Kathleen
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Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby Kathleen » Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:32 am

Well I guess I should be thankful I haven't had a dog with this before. Now apparently I do. Banzai Vomited the other morning early and was off food most of the day. In the afternoon he started eating. He hasn't vomited any more but is clearly sick to his stomach in the mornings. I've started feeding him 4 meals a day the last one being right before bed. I was very happy yesterday when he wasn't sick first thing and thought that would solve the problem. Unfortunatly this morning he was sick again. I stuffed a Xantac down his throut and he was willing to eat about 8:30am. According to the Vet and what have read online. These dogs often do need to take antacids. I had no idea the potential side effects of these drugs until now. Banzai is only 2 and I hate to think of a lifetime of antacids for him. He started acupuncture yesterday and is on digestive enzymes as well as probiotics. Yesterday we started him on Standard Process digestive/immune support. Something with an E.
Anyone with experience on this and ideas?

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby SherriA » Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:29 am

I've never heard of this, so I'm no help there. I can tell you, though, that Jack took Pepcid for many years with no apparent ill effects. I don't know of Zantac has more side effects, but the Pepcid was no problem for him.
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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby Kathleen » Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:50 am

Thanks Sherri, I'm sorry my post didn't make much sense. I'm sending these things from work these days and don't always proof read like I should.
Banzai seems to be fine with one Pepcid right before bed. I have a friend with a dog that has this and she has to set her alarm for 2:00AM and get the dog a small meal each night. I shouldn't complain, hopefully we wont get to that point.

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby connie » Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:51 am

For the first time ever, I have a dog -- Dee Not A Sheltie -- who needs to be fed at least every 12 hours, or she pukes up bile. I've seen this on occasion in various dogs, but with Dee it's a fact of life. I don't think she needs antacids, but she needs food on her stomach pretty much round the clock.

I would definitely look for herbal alternatives to the antacids, since those are not good for anyone long-term. Do you see the Standard Process supplement helping at all?

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby JudyL » Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:04 am

ChiChi was too acidy on 2 meals a day as a youngster and we started down that path of treating with Pepcid. Sometimes she'd be vomiting in the early morning hours before we were even out of bed. Feeding 3 times a day solved the problem, and that is still my schedule now. These wee ones sometimes need smaller more frequent meals for other reasons too, like hypoglycemia if they are fed only one larger meal that other breeds can tolerate. It's the routine that works best for us.

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby Kathleen » Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:27 am

We have only been using Standard process since Tuesday so hard to tell. Banzai is really miserable in the mornings when his stomach is upset. He is a sensitive guy but it is hard to watch. Right now my plan is to use the Pepcid for a week or so then hopefully start to phase it out. All my dogs have been eating grass like little cows right now so my Vet friend and I discussed the possibility that he made himself sick with that and hopefully will be okay on the four meals a day without Pepcid in the future. I've also started him on the HK goat milk supplement. My husband said when he has acid build up a glass of milk really helps so I'm hoping it will help Banzai too.

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby Amanda » Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:44 pm

Freddy used to do this as well, though not to this level. But we had to feed a bedtime snack to keep him from throwing up in the early morning. That lasted for a few years and then he seemed to outgrow it or something. I hope your plan helps him.

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby UpwardDog » Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:11 pm

That sounds like Sam only he also has a really obvious sensitivity to fatty foods and big changes too. he just recently had a flare up and went off his food, had watery stool. Sure enough being off his food at all means urping of bile and more days of misery. can't win.

please keep us posted on what helps.

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby Kathleen » Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:37 am

One thing that seems to be different with Banzai then others I've talked to with this is that he is really nauseous. It seems like other dogs vomit bile but are happy to eat. He wont eat at all for a few hours and is really off the whole day. I'm not sure if it is just because he is so sensitive or there is possibly something else going on. His half brother bloated last week after going under for an X ray. I'm not real inclined to have Banzai go under right now to be scoped. It might be something I'm brave enough to do down the road if he doesn't improve.

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby PofiMia » Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:38 pm

Hi, Kathleen. Don't know if you saw this, but Pofi recently had extreme nausea and we ended up with a diagnosis of gallbladder mucocele. The gallbladder gets sludgy and it impacts the liver. He threw up once and pretty much stopped eating because he was so nauseous from that point on. Have you done any bloodwork to look at liver values?

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby Kathleen » Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:40 am

I'm having trouble getting anyone interested in doing bloodwork, specially now that he seems fine with the Pepcid. My plan right now is to continue for another week with the Pepcid then see if I can wean him off. With the Pepcid he is eating happily in the mornings without nausea.

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby PofiMia » Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:29 pm

Well, I don't think Pofi would have been eating again with Pepcid, so probably not related at all. Just something to keep in your back pocket. Glad he is feeling better.

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby MaisyPancakes » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:19 pm

I hear you about the common-but-kind-of-scary-once-you-look-into-it-ness of Pepcid and the like. I think it's much more preferable than the PPIs, though, and easier to wean off of. My vet and I tried tons of things to ease her off of Pepcid, and I made a spice mix with cardamom, anise, fennel, cinnamon, ginger, black pepper, cayenne, cumin, orange peel, rosehips — and put a bit in a capsule and gave it with food. I can't go look in my MP journal now to recall what each of these were supposed to do, but I do know that the purpose was to restore GI comfort and and maybe reduce/inhibit histamine? I also dried minced fresh ginger and added that to the capsules sometimes. I had to wait on the ginger because it can sometimes be too irritating. The go-tos like Insanely thick barley water and slippery elm and marshmallow type things also helped, too. I was scared and desperate at the time (she lost a ton of weight and I just needed her to absorb nutrients), so tried all the above at once...so I can't quite pinpoint what worked, but eventually, she was much better. Maybe this syndrome is a whole different thing, but for general GI distress, these are the things that helped us.

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby Kathleen » Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:04 pm

Well his appetite is fine, but he is clearly nauseous at times. This morning he was running around with the toy so we went outside to play a little ball. It was about 40 minutes after he had eaten, after a few tosses and some zoomies he was sick, he was grabbing vegetation like they do when sick and lip licking. I have an appointment for bloodwork and an ultrasound Thursday.
He is currently eating Stella and Chewy's raw and has been on this since he was about 7 Months old. Now I'm thinking I'm going to start cooking his food and see if that makes a difference. Maybe the fat content in the Stella and Chewy's is too high?

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby Kathleen » Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:15 pm

So Tuesday I started giving him 2 Pepci a day. Wednesday was a good day. Unfortunatly the loud stomach gurgling started last night even with the pepsid and late meal. He was unwilling to eat this morning but seemed hungry and ate around 9 am. He is pretty lethargic today. Right now he is in getting an X ray and bloodwork and ultrasound to see if we can get to the bottom of this. Dr. M says he isn't expecting to find anything but some things. He wants to add a slurry of Keraphate (I have no idea of the spelling)

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby SherriA » Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:42 pm

I hope they can get to the bottom of this soon. It's got to be so frustrating and worrisome for you.
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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby Amanda » Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:48 pm

Poor guy! I hoped get some answers today!

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby Kathleen » Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:34 am

The ultrasound and X rays came back normal. He has actually gained two pounds since this started. :) Dr. Minor was saying he feels at this point it is more or a nuisance problem then a serious medical issue. We started the Carafate (that is the correct spelling) last night. It isn't wonderful in that right now I put it in a syringe and force it down his throat, neither of us love that. Any ideas would be welcome. My friend says she adds a little manuka honey and her dogs lap it up. Banzai isn't into sweet things so that wouldn't work for him. I'll have to see if I could maybe add a little baby food. No one thinks I should have him scoped at this point. They would have to put him under (not wonderful with a sighthound) and it is kind of invasive. Part of me wants to get to the bottom of this but I also have to think I would want a more conservative approach for myself.
I'm still doing accupucture which really helped but doesn't last long. My practitioner is getting some herbals together for us too.
I should get the bloodwork back this morning which could change things if it shows any abnormalities.

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby Kathleen » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:07 pm

I just got news on his blood work and oddly his thyroid is low .6.
I haven't had a low thyroid dog yet. Echo was low at 12 but it was pretty cut and dry. They are sending out for a free T4 tonight to confirm.
We will see.

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby Amanda » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:01 pm

That is interesting. Glad you found it out. Is nausea a symptom in dogs?

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby LisaT_II » Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:30 pm

Tick disease often presents with low thyroid.

On the tick list, I've seen a number of dogs get ill from pepcid, with similar symptoms that it is supposed to fix, oddly enough. Same thing happens with my Jazz. Instead, I use baking soda with some water in a syringe.
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Kathleen
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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby Kathleen » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:13 am

His free T4 is normal, so the initial low thyroid could be from the fact he is not feeling well right now. With the Carafate he is doing great, pretty much back to his old self. I have been feeding turkey and rice but he had loose stool yesterday with LOTS of undigested rice in it. Last nigh he had boiled chicken with a little white potato. So far so good but it's early.
If he has to stay on the Carafate, and that is a big if, he will have to have regular blood work to check aluminum levels. That is unsettling.
It is good to have him feeling himself again. I'm still holding out hope that this is an episode of some sort and he will be able to get off all the digestive aides.

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby emmas_mom » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:06 pm

Carafate is the same as sulcrafate, what Mitzi is on for virtually the same symptoms. Aluminum build up can be a problem. Main thing to remember is that it shouldn't be used for more than 10-14 days consecutively, according to my vet, after which I have to give her a break of a week or two. Also don't give other meds or supplements for at least an hour or more afterwards. It does work great though, and once she's had a long dose of it (usually 5 to 10 daysbut sometimes as long as two weeks), she's good for a couple of weeks, and if she starts with the same symptoms (nausea, bringing up bile, not wanting to eat), I can usually give just one or two doses for a couple of days and she's fine again. In desperate times, I also give her a mirtazapene to get her eating again, though this is less and less frequent. Mitzi was a nightmare to syringe the sulcrafate into until I started doing it as a part of her regular daily grooming, when she is standing on a no-slip mat on the bathroom counter - I do her brushing, ears, eyes, and - pop - in goes the syringe to the back of her throat while she sits even with my chest. Before getting her into this routine I used to have to have a neighbour come over and one of us would hold her wrapped in a blanket while the other attempted to shove the stuff down her throat.
Mitzi is also getting Tylan powder again, which has made a huge difference - however, it is so bitter that she will often eat around the food it is on and leave the middle! I've started mixing the powder with yogurt and syringing it to the back of her throat.
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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby Kathleen » Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:29 am

Here is an update. As I stated everything was going fine with two Pepcid and two doses of Carafate a day. Like Mitzi the Carafate was a problem getting down but we were hanging in there. Last Monday morning after the time change, he was nauseous with a very noisy stomach again. That was with the Carafate and Pepcid in the evening. I was pretty bummed. I have a friend who is giving it to her dog three times a day. Her dog has been like this since she brought her home and she has been scoped and has a clear birth defect in her stomach. (Breeder refused to reimburse her too Amanda) I got to thinking though I slept in an hour because of the time change so he ate later. This clearly has to do with the empty stomach. So I started feeding him a quarter cup of kibble around 2AM. I've weaned him off the Carafate and Pepcid this week and last night was our first night with no antacids. He was fine and hungry this morning as he has been all week since I started the midnight snack.
I am very happy and hope this continues although it would mean I can never take a vacation. I'm not sure there is a pet sitter out there that would set their alarm to feed my dog. I am also continuing with the acupuncture and started introducing some herbs yesterday.

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby emmas_mom » Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:23 am

I'm glad you've found a solution and hope it continues to work well. I wish I could try extra feeds for Mitzi, but if she doesn't want to eat, she won't eat - and right now she will only eat once a day, in the evening. But at least she's eating, and taking her meds. :)
Finding petsitters who will cater to our special needs dogs is always a challenge, though I've been fortunate to occasionally find ones willing to get up in the night with my dogs. On the down side, they seem to either get super busy so I have to book a year or more in advance, or they stop petsitting due to their own family's needs, or they move!
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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby JudyL » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:27 am

I'm glad you've found something that is working for Banzai. Would he eat from one of those dispensers with a timer to give that one meal of kibble in the night?

I truly feel your pain. More frequent feedings and medicines every few hours has been my routine with one dog or another since 2009, and I haven't been on a vacation in at least 8 years.

Banzai is a younger dog though, so I hope you can figure out something that will allow you to not feel like his schedule will overshadow and stymie your other activities and plans.

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby SherriA » Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:38 pm

I'm so glad you've found something that works!
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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby Kathleen » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:13 pm

Several people have mentioned the automatic feeders and it might be an option if I didn't have two very clever and hungry Tervs. There is no way Banzai would stand a chance at getting any food before the girls got it.

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby JudyL » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:00 pm

Do you have a separate room he could stay in overnight with the feeder so the Tervs couldn't get to him and the food? A bedroom, kitchen, bath or laundry? Or crate the Tervs and leave him loose with his feeder?

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Re: Bilious vomiting syndrom

Postby Kathleen » Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:25 am

Yes Judy that is a possibility except that they all sleep with me. ;) I'm sure I could manage something like that if I need to go out of town. Also I'm hoping that the acupuncture and herbals will eventually resolve the underlying problem. The alarmist in me is not thrilled with digestive problems in a deep chested large breed dog even though bloat is not yet a problem in Silkens.


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