Po's saga

Discuss topics ranging from general care to diet, vaccinations etc.
PofiMia
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Re: Po's saga

Postby PofiMia » Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:43 pm

Woo hoo. Just found this in a Q&A on biliary sludge (human patient):
  • Pale stools mean, not enough bile is coming into your intestine, so fats are not absorbed and are excreted.

    Green diarrhea, especially burning one, is quite characteristic for excess of bile excreting with the stool.

    Now, this means, you once have reduced, and once excessive bile excretion. It is possible that "sludge" is releasing from your gallbladder in big portions: some times nothing, then in bulk...
I definitely noticed this week as we were sort of reaching crisis point that his poop was paler - clay colored. Today's was mostly a normal, healthy deep brown color with this green center. It was not an object. And yes, I did actually take a photo......

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Re: Po's saga

Postby PofiMia » Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:50 pm

Jean, just saw your post!

Yes, I am hand feeding - actually sort of forced him to eat canned food tonight again - I literally put it in his mouth and he eats it. Was not interested enough to just take it from my hand. And I have been trying different plates and bowls rather than his standard stainless steel with limited success. I will be on poop patrol!!

And just like Mitzi, sometimes if I try to offer hand feed him something, without literally putting it on his tongue, it will get dropped or nudged off my fingers and then he will eat it off the floor, but I come back with a bowl and no dice. I do think some of this is psychological - association with feeling ill.

I am NOT forcing food down his throat -just putting it in his mouth. He can spit it out if he wants and sometimes does. I am trying beef and lamb foods which are not what is normally fed.

But he was definitely more interested in eating all day. Trying to stay level headed. He may be back to not wanting to eat tomorrow....

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Re: Po's saga

Postby MaisyPancakes » Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:46 pm

I've also heard that anesthesia (and probably regular sedation, also?) can cause green or weird poops in general—I'd keep an eye on it but maybe not worry as much for maybe another poop? (Because it's easy for me to say!!!) My vets also tell us to push fluids for a while after any kind of procedures to flush it all out; I think that's a good idea to try if you can. I usually use yogurty or brothy water for that.

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Re: Po's saga

Postby PofiMia » Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:22 am

Interesting, Nana. In the end, they barely used anesthetic - just for the few minutes it took to do the biopsy part on Thursday morning. Dr. T was actually pretty pleased at how well he handled the rather lengthy ultrasound on just the sedative (they have a 4th year vet resident shadowing the doctors and as they had a very light procedure schedule, after Dr. T had looked at all Po's organs, he let her also use the U/S wand and repeat).

Could be. Poops were definitely paler before we started meds though - significantly. This is good.

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Re: Po's saga

Postby PofiMia » Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:03 pm

Okay, you dog numbers nerds ( which I say with great affection). In one week on meds, his ALT value went from over 2600 to 800. Bilirubin down from 7.9 to .9!!!

No weight loss. And tonight he ate canned Weruva Paw Lickin' Chicken and kibble from a bowl. Not my hands!!

Can I get a "Woot, woot!"

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Re: Po's saga

Postby JudyL » Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:13 pm

Yes, for sure!!!!! I am beyond happy for all of you!

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Re: Po's saga

Postby emmas_mom » Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:15 pm

WOOTWOOT.jpg
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PofiMia
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Re: Po's saga

Postby PofiMia » Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:35 pm

:thumbup:

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Re: Po's saga

Postby MaisyPancakes » Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:25 pm

Woots of all woots!!

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SherriA
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Re: Po's saga

Postby SherriA » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:36 pm

Woooooohooooo freakin' hoooooooooo!
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Re: Po's saga

Postby UpwardDog » Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:17 pm

Yay!! I'm so glad things are looking up.

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Re: Po's saga

Postby whiteboxerboy » Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:07 pm

Hooray!!!!

I am SO happy he's feeling better and eating!

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Re: Po's saga

Postby EllaBella » Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:40 am

Yay!!!! That is great news!

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Re: Po's saga

Postby Calypso » Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:28 pm

I'm so glad!!!

PofiMia
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Re: Po's saga

Postby PofiMia » Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:23 pm

He is still eating well. In fact improving every day.

There is this bit of weirdness from the liver biopsy. The report indicated some inflammation that supported our working diagnosis of the mucocele in the gallbladder. But they sent an addendum noting evidence of Copper Storage disease. High level of Copper retained in his liver. Disease is super common in Bedlington Terriers (!), so my vet is consulting with others and trying to figure out "what to do with this information.". However, Google tells me high level of Copper Storage may be related to excess bile and so I wonder if the mucocele resolving means the copper level might decrease??? We will see what he gathers in consultation.

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Re: Po's saga

Postby maxs_mommy » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:55 pm

I'm glad he's feeling better! From what I've read, Dobermans and labs are also susceptible to copper storage disease along with the terriers. I hope once his gallbladder can heal the excess copper can move out of his system normally.
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Re: Po's saga

Postby LisaT_II » Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:47 pm

This also confirms that abnormal liver function can cause problems with copper: http://www.mayomedicallaboratories.com/ ... etive/8687

When Jazz was having liver problems (elevated enzymes), the internal medicine vet talked about how we treat and they get better, but then they have these flairs that we might not even realize (thus frequent testing should be done). We don't realize it, and then suddenly they are very sick with a bad flair that we actually notice, and by then "these guys" are all showing changes in the liver, as well as elevated copper. <<<<Sure wish I could remember what else he said.
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Re: Po's saga

Postby LisaT_II » Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:48 pm

I might consider increasing zinc, or having the diet analyzed.
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PofiMia
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Re: Po's saga

Postby PofiMia » Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:42 pm

Hey, LisaT_II.

Sorry I missed your posts. Pofi's liver numbers after 6 weeks of Ursodiol and Denamarin, are pretty much perfect and back to where they were last summer. ALT, originally at 2,674, then down to 789, is now down to 102. Max of normal range is 151. Bilirubin also where is should be and all the rest.

My vet did consult with an internist and they correlated to gallbladder and the impact to the liver - did not feel it was likely Copper Storage disease at all.

But we will for sure be looking at diet.


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