At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

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Amanda
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At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby Amanda » Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:01 pm

After a single run across the park in our first two minutes there Tuesday night, Zeke came up lame on his left hind. Completely non-weight baring. No significant missteps, collisions, or anything. Deramax and tramadol Tues, Wed, Thurs. limp totally gone. Stopped meds. Still no limp. An occasional funny step, but matched on the right usually. He is gangly and moves weird sometimes. This morning he didn't finish breakfast in 45 seconds like usual and he was walking weird like he was stretching his belly. He did finish his food though and then acted fine. Pooped like normal. Playing and happy.

Watched him walk throughout the day today. Nothing significant, nothing I can't attribute to me being neurotic. DH sees nothing amiss, but that's not surprising. About 30 minutes after doing a really weird leg stretch straight back on the injured leg, Zeke went and threw up just now. Three separate piles of foamy junk.

And now he will walk on the leg with an ever so slight arrhythmia. I can't call it a limp. It's just like the pattern is slightly off. No one but a horse person would probably see it. But when he stands still, he holds it up just enough to take pressure off of it. So he is definitely hurt.

I don't know what to do. Medication will probably upset his stomach and I don't know why he threw up. He hasn't had any meds since Thursday. I have to work tomorrow and Tuesday. DH cannot manage a vet visit. He has no idea what he is doing. I can try my boss and see if I can come in late or leave early or something, but I don't know when they will have openings.

Did I mention my broken heart about all this? Sigh.

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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby Calypso » Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:19 pm

Oh no! I have no advice, just sympathy.

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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby whiteboxerboy » Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:08 pm

Oh good grief, Amanda. I'm so sorry.

I don't really have anything to offer except sympathy & best wishes for a speedy recovery.

Maybe cram a Pepcid down his throat before bed tonight so his belly doesn't get rumbly. Then I guess you should wrap him in bubble wrap. For the rest of his life. ;)

Sorry.

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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby Amanda » Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:41 pm

I fed him half his dinner in case it was just upset from being hungry. Will feed him the rest in a bit since he kept it down so far. No food in the morning in case we can get in to the vet for X-rays. I think I need to see what is going on in there unless the vet can diagnose with palpating. I am thinking it's his knee this time. Praying for pano though. This sucks.

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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby maxs_mommy » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:05 pm

Poor guy! Poor you! I'm so sorry!
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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby Amanda » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:58 am

It's his knee again. Got adequan injections twice a week for four weeks then we will taper off, and probably settle on once a month injections for a while.. Deramax as needed, no tramadol. Steady walking encouraged. No explosive movement. Lifelong joint support required. So I need to start researching glucosamine supplements. He should heal from this again. And hopefully once he's finished growing he won't have any more lameness issues. The vet doesn't seem to think that this is related to his other lameness, and it's just another case of bad luck.

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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby MaisyPancakes » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:44 am

So frustrating. I'm so sorry! :( Does it mean that it's bad luck pano again, or bad luck freak injury?

I did quite a bit of research on types of glucosamine + combo supplements and have settled so far on Dr's Best ("Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM") and Swanson ("Joint Care") brands. I like to have at least a couple types to rotate, just because. I kind of like that the Swanson one is a gelcap. Be careful of some combos that have anti-inflammatories like white willow (contains salicin) when you're doing NSAIDs, and if he has a sensitive tummy.

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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby SherriA » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:03 pm

I used glyco flex for Oliver
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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby Amanda » Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:03 pm

No, not pano. Probably weakness from injuring it as a (younger) puppy. Thanks for the recommendations. The vets suggestion of a royal canin joint formula is not what I'll be pursuing. ;) Like most vets, his nutrition recs are not up to par.

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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby Moemer » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:10 pm

so so so shitty, I'm so sorry :( What have your discussions with the breeder looked like? I imagine it could be an uncomfortable conversation.
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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby Amanda » Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:31 pm

She thinks he just needs to finish growing and all will be well. She may be right. I don't know. So far, nothing with his issues have shown a congenital defect. Just bad luck. I did tell her I was disappointed to have ended up with a dog as big as he is, but I don't think that's her fault either. The parents are in size, and all his siblings are in size so far. So there wasn't really any reason to know he would be gigantic. He was the biggest puppy in the litter, but how can you tell how big s puppy will mature to be? I just never even knew this was a possibility.

His limp has worsened. See my other thread about withholding pain meds to keep him chilled. I have called the vet as well to see what his opinion is. Zeke is currently laying on his side on the tile floor moaning. :( He seems to have a low threshold for pain. That may be working in his favor since it may help him rest. But I feel so mean!

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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby Amanda » Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:20 am

We are back to stomach upset. Hoping it's just the deramaxx I've had to give him the last four days for his bone pain. He threw up last night and refused breakfast this morning. Going to pick up slippery elm. I have never used that before. What is the dosage and how do you give it?

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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby SherriA » Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:25 am

Here you go,from http://www.holvet.net/slippery_soup.html:

Slippery Soup™ Preparation and Administration: You can find the herb in a dry powder form in capsules, as dried leaf in tea bags, or as loose dried leaf in the “bulk” products section of many health food stores. Any of these forms will do. Do not use the tincture (which already comes as a liquid in a dropper bottle). It may help in a few cases but it will not have all the healing physical properties of the brewed tea. The same goes for mixing the dried herb directly into the food. It will not give all the benefits of the brewed tea.
1. Simple Tea Method. You’ll prepare this medication just like a tea you might drink yourself. First, put a heaping teaspoon of dried herb in a coffee mug, and add 8-12 oz of boiling water or diluted broth. Allow to cool. If using capsules, open them up, discarding the shells, and note that it may take a bit less to get good results.
2. Long-Brew Method. To get more out of your supply or to create a thicker medicine use the same amounts of herb and water listed above and simmer for 10-20 minutes.
3. The resultant liquid, once cooled, should be somewhat thicker than water. If it is as thin as water double the dry herb amount next time, or try the long-brew method. If it is thick like jelly, that’s fine. You can use half of the dosages listed below. This makes it much easier to spoon feed reluctant patients! Do not worry about any loose herb in the liquid. It does not have to be filtered out. This infusion or decoction will keep for about 5 days in the fridge.
4. Add the liquid to the food at mealtimes, or add to the water bowl, or give as a treat. The goal is 4 doses per day, but even once daily will provide some relief. I hate to force feed anything. But this is one treatment that is probably worth it if you must. If force feeding is your only choice use the stove top brewing method and aim for a thicker, jellylike consistency so you can administer less physical amount for the same beneficial effect.
5. Palatability Tricks. To give Slippery Soup™ as a treat (my preferred way!) you can do several things. You can mix the liquid 50/50 with broth, soup, a favorite canned food, milk or nut milk (eg - unsweetened almond milk), tuna juice, or baby food. It may not smell great to you, but these soups are highly appreciated by pets! You can also add it to yogurt or cottage cheese if dairy is not an issue.
6. Dose size (goal is 4 doses per day):
Cats and Dogs under 25 lbs 1-2 Tablespoons
Dogs 25-50 lbs 2-4 Tablespoons
Dogs 50 lbs and up ¼ to ½ cup
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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby MaisyPancakes » Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:18 am

I've heard of some dogs doing better with dry SE just mixed into food, too, for whatever reason. So, if he doesn't like or doesn't seem to do well on the slurry, you can also try about 1-2 tsp per meal of the dry powder (I'm talking about the bulk from co-op type places; don't know about capsules) and see if that works better.

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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby LisaT_II » Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:57 pm

I would try some of george's aloe vera (that brand specifically because it's preservative free, tastes like water, and I know works. By "working", I mean that some people (and I presume dogs) don't have enough of the correct signaling factors to create strong enough collagen, which affects a boatload of things in the gut, as well as the joints. Aloe contains some of these missing signaling factors. It's also known for helping gut issues like IBD.

In humans the dosage is 1-2 ounces daily, for life, since it's similar to replacing hormones that the body doesn't make. In humans, most people report first feeling achy and sore on it as their body changes, but slowly their body starts strengthening its structures, now having the right signaling factors, and eventually it is more stable, resists injury, etc. In some people, it's nothing short of a miracle.

I've been watching people start on this protocol in a FB group I joined because of Jazz. I also have Jazz on it, and she is doing better with it. It can't hurt to try, unless there is a weird allergy. This is one of several supplements in the protocol, but it's a powerful one, IF this is what the body needs to make a stronger support system.
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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby LisaT_II » Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:59 pm

Jazz doesn't do well on SE. I would fill a capsule with marshmallow and give it at bedtime and that would work well, never made any slurries...
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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby Amanda » Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:03 pm

I tried the capsules opened up into a tea. I used four capsules which equaled a heaping teaspoon. Didn't get thick though. I gave him about 1/2 cup mixed with chicken broth. I am making bone broth today/tonight for both of us. I have been sick for a month and am just so very over it. Forgot about bone broth until this morning. It will be good for collagen and immunities, etc.

I realized after finding some throw up piles on the side of the house that there are pieces of my son's little rubber ninjas in there. They are small and soft, so they should have passed through, but maybe they irritated him. There was a hair tie in there too. Silly dog.

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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby Amanda » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:35 pm

Slippery elm seems to be helping. Canned pumpkin too. Still soft poo and whining/complaining from him, but no vomiting or refusing food. And some poo is formed. He is still dead lame on the right hind which worries me a little since he got better a bit faster on the left hind, meaning he was using the leg a bit by now whereas on this leg he is still hopping. Monday will be 21 days lame on this leg. His muscles are disappearing on that side. Took three and half weeks for total soundness before though, so we'll see. I'll take him back to the vet late next week or early the following if he doesn't get better. No more deramaxx though because of the tummy troubles. Arnica and Ruta grav on board though not seeming to help much.

This is such a distressing disease. He seems so hurt, it's hard to believe that no treatment is really necessary or that there is nothing to do but wait. And back to back lameness means he has been solid limping for over two full months. Ugh. Someone send us no more gimpy vibes or something. I can't take it. He is missing his hunt test tomorrow and that just sucks. Everyone is posting their scores and I am throwing a pity party for myself and Z. :(

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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby EllaBella » Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:32 am

So so many "all done no more gimpy vibes" for Z. I feel so bad for him and for you.

The muscles will come back quickly once the lameness resolves. I hope this episode is over asap.

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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby UpwardDog » Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:03 pm

So sorry that this pain and lameness persists. I wish they would give him some tramadol or some other non-NSAID for analgesic. A puppy shouldn't have to be in pain.

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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby Amanda » Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:15 pm

I have tramadol but his stomach is still upset. Considering a vet visit just for that.

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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby Amanda » Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:01 pm

No limping! No resting his foot when just standing around. Lots of energy and being a pest! Hooray! ;) We will be slow to get him back into exercise just to be extra safe. Planning to run a blood panel and test for Von Willebrands (commonly seen in dogs with pano) and some tick stuff just to be safe. I got some crazy information this week about some other young wires with symptoms like Zeke's that ended up dying a few months later so I'm a little worried about that. But I am glad to have my pesty puppy back! I did some math the other day and he has spent 1/4 of his life so far on rest or restricted activity. Good grief!

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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby UpwardDog » Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:15 pm

Did his tummy settle down?
Do they know what caused the deaths of the other wires? That's a little annerving.

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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby LisaT_II » Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:33 pm

Glad he is feeling better, and glad you'll be running some bloodwork. Even if it's normal, the rule-outs are important, and if it's not normal, you'll find something you can fix.
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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby LisaT_II » Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:39 pm

Btw, I didn't know there was a connection between VonW and pano. Weird, genetics are strange.
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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby Calypso » Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:32 pm

No more limping (or other stuff!) thoughts to Mr. Zeke.

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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby Amanda » Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:56 pm

Tummy is still a bit off, but so is Landis. Thinking it was some treats I bought. The other dogs were euthanized after wandering lameness and losing weight with no solution. No diagnosis. I am hoping to talk to one of their owners, but I am not sure they want to talk about it. Kind of traumatic. It kind of sounds like maybe Lyme (hence the tick panel for Zeke) or maybe Polymyositis.

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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby Amanda » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:46 pm

Flagyl and a fecal for both dogs. Giardia is suspect #1. Who knows what I may have brought home from work though. Lyme, and even more so ehrlichia in his opinion, is a concern enough to run a panel after I told him the story of the other puppies. We decided (vet and I) to both call the tick labs, me protatek as recommended by Lisa, and he will call his referral internist and the tick lab he uses (Colorado state he said or maybe Kansas, he couldn't remember because he doesn't send out full tick panels often). He recommended against the snap test. Not enough info. He is not concerned at all about polymyositis. He said it attacks mandible muscles first and Zeke's pain is clearly bone/joint, not muscle. He is also not concerned at all about Von Willebrands. He said he would have had trouble clotting even with a vaccine or his adequan injections and he didn't even bleed a little, so nothing to worry about there. His right knee has some swelling on it and he is still favoring the leg, but not much. So still going to keep him resting as much as possible. And that's my update so far. I fasted the boys last night. Plain yogurt and pumpkin (just a bit) this morning. Rice, turkey, pumpkin, and probiotics for dinner. Hoping we can kick this thing in a few days.

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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby Amanda » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:12 pm

Giardia it is. Landis is worse off than Zeke. Z is ready and raring to go. L vomited again this am and is not solid out the other way yet either. For Z, Vet isn't worried about polyarthritis or other autoimmune issues. He said Zeke just really doesn't fit the profile. He has some joint swelling but no heat. He will draw blood for me to send out if I really want to (and only charge me $10!) but if it were his dog, he said he might just throw some doxy at him and see what happens rather than spend the money on the panel. Everything we would be testing for would be treated with doxy anyway and it's a pretty safe drug. No tetracycline because that would damage his teeth, but he said doxy or even monocycline could be possible. For now we need to get the Giardia under control first and then we'll figure out next steps. He needed to give me some extra doses of flagyl because he didn't give me enough for a Giardia diagnosis yesterday. He gave me the extra for free. I seriously love this guy. He treats me like an intelligent human being, like a friend more than a client. I don't feel like another tick on his daily to do list, another customer to up sell to. He lives in reality with me, knowing my budget is part of my decisions as well as simply looking at the whole dog and not jumping to extremes to wring more diagnostics out of me. This is the first vet I've ever been to that worked at this level of logic and common sense. Maybe because he isn't corporately owned. Who knows? I'm just glad I trust him and he is so down to earth.

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Re: At my wits end... Gimpy Zeke now with stomach upset!

Postby Calypso » Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:51 am

Sounds like an awesome vet. I was wondering about just throwing Doxy at it, too. Glad I wasn't totally off base.

Hope Landis feels better soon!


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