Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

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Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby MaisyPancakes » Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:28 am

You guys, you won't believe this. She went in for her urinalysis via cysto and laser appointment this morning, and when she got up (however clumsily) out of the trough thing (v-shaped padded thing), she must've tweaked her back or something because immediately thereafter, she literally looked like the St. Louis arch (or a scared/arched back cat), emptied her (very full) bladder on the floor, and waddled/stumbled with her back feet knuckling under a bit, her belly was literally in a knot so hard it felt like a bunch of rocks and grunted repeatedly. I had never seen her act like this, ever. The tech and I were like, OMG!! And we had another tech take her vitals (OK), and waited a bit for our vet to free up (very busy day), and he took a look and decided that it appears that her behavior (arched gait, unsteadiness, knuckling under) are likely indicative of severe pain, so they gave her a Rimadyl injection and got some x-rays, which showed nothing immediately alarming. We watched her until they closed at noon, and she did improve 100 fold (she could walk and wag her tail, hind toe reflexes slowish but returned)—so we were told that she doesn't seem to be in a medical emergency (like, surgery ASAP! kind of thing), but if she seems any worse (more painful, hindquarters not functioning, unwilling to move) I should bring her to the University emergency care where they may take MRIs, etc. I seriously could NOT believe this was happening as it unfolded. The "unwillingness to move" and "more painful" thing is really hard for me to determine because she already looks bad (although much better than initial onset).

They think she is most tender to the touch around her hip area, but since the xrays didn't show anything obviously BAD, they couldn't really tell if there is a specific thing that hurts.

Even during the REALLY bad phase, she did take her goat cheese, although she wasn't as into the banana, which is lower value but she has never refused. Because they advised to keep her hydrated/flushing her system, I gave her a yogurt + chicken broth that she looked at and stood by but didn't eat. :( MP HAS NEVER REFUSED ANYTHING EDIBLE. :( I put the bowl on a box to make it higher in case that was bothering her, but no go. I finally was able to coax her to her bed (otherwise she just stands still) but she hasn't touched her Kong that I put a bit of goat cheese and banana in. Not grunting anymore, and is sleeping now next to me on her cushion.

WHAT THE FUNGUS YOU GUYS!!!!!! :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: This is so messed up. MP cannot get a break these days. :( She was JUST getting back on track with her rehab of her bad shoulder and now she's seriously messed up again. Sorry if I'm halfway incoherent; I didn't get much sleep to begin with and am kind of running on adrenaline and disbelief. Thanks for listening!!
Last edited by MaisyPancakes on Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby JudyL » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:04 am

Your vet did this solely to obtain a urine sample and without anesthesia? Was this done by the tech?

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby MaisyPancakes » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:06 am

Two techs with me giving her cheese as they did it. They do this all the time and this was MP's second time. No problems before. :( It doesn't seem like they do anesthesia for taking urine; they didn't do it last time, either.

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby JudyL » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:11 am

Maybe I misunderstood. Was it ultrasound-guided needle insertion directly into the bladder? It wasn't a rigid scope through the urethra, right?

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby MaisyPancakes » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:13 am

No, maybe I'm using the cysto term wrong—I mean via cystocentesis—needle in the bladder but no ultrasound—just stab and pull.

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby JudyL » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:22 am

Oh sorry. I did get it wrong. My old vet always insisted on a sterile draw, always used the u/s, maybe to charge more or could have been because my dogs are so small. She refused to accept free catch urine brought in by owners.

One time ChiChi has this done and when she was brought back to the exam room she looked very stiff and a little hunched, and looked like she was about to vomit. Vet didn't seem concerned, but she was clearly in some distress, but it was nothing like you are describing.

It does sound like she tweaked something in her back. If you know the area, would MP let you ice the area? It might help with the pain and inflammation.

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby connie » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:27 am

Oh no, what the HELL?!?! I can't offer anything but I'm worrying with you, Nana!

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby MaisyPancakes » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:32 am

Thank you guys! I really appreciate you guys keeping me company, too—of course I'm by myself. Long story short Acorn is kind of no-longer, so I'm REALLY sort of alone.

Judy, I'm new to the sterile draw method (I'd done the free catch all these years) so I didn't even know that they use ultrasound for this!

Yes, the hunching totally looks like pre-vomiting stance. She may have gotten like a much worse version of what ChiChi had that time. When the tech first went to find a vet (they were booked up and busy so the vet couldn't immediately come see us), he said that it's not uncommon for dogs to lose their balance for a few minutes or feel kind of wonky so wait just a few minutes and see—but the tech and I were like, "Uh, this is kind of worse than that."

We are kind of unsure about where The Effed Area is since it didn't show in the xray, but he thought she seemed more tender right around her hip bone zone—so that I could ice if I wanted to, but it may not really help because of all the muscle that has to penetrate. I think I'll try anyway since he said it won't hurt. Thanks for the suggestion!!

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby Sabine » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:43 am

Oh Nana, I am so sorry. :( Big big hugs from here, and if I can do anything, please let me know.
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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby JudyL » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:47 am

It can be done without ultrasound if the bladder is full enough to palpate and locate. It sounds like MPs was full, you said she emptied it on the floor. With Cinnabon's last trouble, she was peeing so frequently that she was almost empty and no way to get a sterile sample even with u/s.

I'd try the ice for MP, it might help some even if you are only close to the spot, and it can't hurt anyway.

Boo, sorry about Acorn. :( We're here for you, Nana.

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby QBert » Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:12 pm

Oh no... [bad words]. I hope she recovers uneventfully, and I'm sorry to hear you've parted ways with Acorn.

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby MaisyPancakes » Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:24 pm

Thank you!! Right now, I'm having a hard time not hovering (specifically was told not to!!) because I am I'll miss some critically important observation. :P She's sat up once, then back down again. :S I *cannot* believe she won't have her soup or banana. :(

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby MaisyPancakes » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:12 pm

I let my rehab vet know what happened, and she called me right away at home to talk to me about it. On a Saturday, while she was super sick herself and coughing like crazy. SO KIND! :bawl: She told me some things that may help (light massage, light heat on leg) and clearer big warning signs to go to e-vet (hunching over, vocalizing from pain, can't hold a stand, doesn't pee for 12 hrs, pale gums, etc.). She said to get her up every two hours, move her around every 4 hrs. Also she told me to give 1 Tramadol, and another in 20 min if she is not better (she was not, so she got another). I got her to stand (I basically helped her up because she doesn't really want to), and she was somewhat steady and took a step or two, and her knuckle response was good, but after about 12 min, she seemed to want to do something and couldn't, and ended up plopping over (her right rear that sort of gave out). 10 min after that, I was able lift her up and she hobbled over to her bed a few steps away and has been sleeping since. I'm supposed to email my rehab vet and give her an update at 7pm. If I don't end up at the University over the weekend, she's going to see if she can see us before her scheduled day starts on Monday. I'm so grateful to have a vet who is so helpful and caring.

I'm thinking that she's going to be super groggy and won't be into all the standing and stuff, but I feel like I have a better idea of GOTTA GO E-VET signs. I do hope she will want to eat eventually; it's really distressing to me that she is so tentative about food. I'm going to try the canned food, since she rarely gets commercial foods and it's like a super treat to her. :)

Thank you all so much for your thoughts!!

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby JudyL » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:24 pm

I just popped on to see if you'd updated. I'm SO glad you spoke with someone that's giving you clearer signs of what to watch for.
Do you know how long will that Rimadyl shot will last? I hope the Tramadol helps her too.
I'm a worrier, so I'm worrying for MP and you from afar.

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby MaisyPancakes » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:40 pm

Thank you so much, Judy! I told MP that all her internet aunties are thinking of her. :) I was told that the Rimadyl shot should last 24 hrs. She is TIRED right now (we woke up super early—so *I* am super tired, too!!!), but it's time for me to lift her up again to check if she can stand, etc. Poo. :tired:

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby UpwardDog » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:47 pm

I'm so glad your rehab vet is on it. The rest f&&^ing sucks.

How do they get them into the v holder thing? Maybe she tweaked it getting in or out?

I hope the tramadol does the trick. Ice really helps if there is a spasmy spot.

I once moved weird in a public bathroom and ended up unable to move--trapped in there for a while. Geoff almost sent in a search party. It resolved itself as the weirdness or spasm (or whatever it is when you move weird and suddenly can not move at all without crazy pain) went down. It took me a couple of days to be moving ok but was guardy for a week out of paranoia.

You can give dogs methacarbamol-muscle relaxant if you get it without the addition of asa or acetaminophen. i get it by asking the pharmacist. that might be somehting to ask the rehab vet about if she's not feeling better with the tramadol.

Keep us posted please. Much love and good vibes to both of you. XXXOOO

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby UpwardDog » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:51 pm

I'm having nervous stomach for you both and from thinking back to getting stuck, bent in half in that bathroom stall in Vancouver. I couldn't even pull up my pants for a long time.

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby whiteboxerboy » Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:02 pm

Oh Nana I'm sorry. What a super stressful yukky time poor MP and you are having.

I'm sending all my good thoughts for MP to snap out of whatever this is.

I'd be hovering, too. Sending internet hugs your way, friend.

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby MaisyPancakes » Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:43 pm

Thank you guys!!! Rehab vet has been amazing. I sent her videos and updates she already called in an Rx for methocarbamol, like Heather said! Going to go get it now; hope it's OK to leave MP. She's sleeping and is very reluctant to move anyway so probably fine.

She just kind of rolled into the v-shaped thing; I do wonder when she did it, but since she did climb out, it seems like maybe later?

I'm so sorry about you getting stuck in the toilet, Heather!!! Totally traumatizing for sure.

Thank you all and sorry for making you all worry! :((((

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby Jen » Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:21 pm

Sounds like you're doing all you can, so I'll just add some consoling... this sounds like how Bella was acting last winter - like she's in severe pain, hunched, unwilling to move, refusing food. Pain meds for several days, muscle relaxants, and rest and she was right as rain again. I hope MP feels better soon.

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby SherriA » Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:35 pm

Oh Nana, how scary! I'm so glad your rehab vet has your back (and MP's) and is being so supportive. Add another internet aunty to the list of people sending good vibes to our favourite Pancake girl.
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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby MaisyPancakes » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:42 pm

You guys, I hauled ass to Walgreens to pick up Rx, and literally waited TWO HOURS there. What on earth. Anyway, when I came home, MP was on the bed (!) and while I went back to the entryway to take off shoes, she came to greet me, tail low-wagging! She was still turtle-paced and a bit tentative, but she was TONS better than 2 hrs before, and she even ate! Out of a bowl! I gave her maybe a half can of food, which was mush textures and she could kind of lap up. She still wouldn't eat some of her usual faves like banana, which makes me wonder if she doesn't want to chew? Or if she just doesn't feel like banana.:S Hard to tell on a dog that usually eats anything. In any case, she walked about the kitchen a bit, looking for crumbs (!) and even SAT! She hadn't sat down all day. It was either stiff stand or collapsed into a lying down position. She really was moving almost normally.
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So, I was kind of elated, but then found *THIS* on the bed. Apologies for the totally crap photos but I have the worst light inside my house and these being shiny things I didn't have the setting right and it either blew out so you can't see the crystals or it was too dark. Anyway, you get the idea. There was a HUGE pile of pee, that saturated through a pretty substantial duvet cover *and* pretty hardcore down duvet, and still through the down/feather bed topper! I mean, an extraordinary amount of pee. She hadn't drank much since we've been home (couldn't get her to even eat) so I don't know how she had so much pee. Water bowl doesn't appear to be touched. I don't know what these are, but there are *tons* of it and some pieces were larger than 2mm! I am pretty sure it came out of her pee instead of having gotten sprinkled on top somehow. It's kind of blowing my mind a little. Has anyone seen anything like this?

So, do I still give the methocarbamol, after she's moving a bit better and this weird pee thing? I don't know if I should be happy or scared again. *kill me now*

And, Jen, I saw your encouraging post about Bella while waiting at Walgreens and almost started crying by the toilet papers because it gave me hope!! (Shouldn't have googled disc rupture/spinal injuries earlier.) Thank you!!

Thank you all for your patience and good thoughts!

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby Jen » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:06 am

:eek2: I don't know but those certainly look like they'd hurt if they were trying to make their way out. :( How does she seem now?

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby MaisyPancakes » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:13 am

Thanks, Jen! I think that face :eek2: is right!! There are *tons* of it! And huge!! The photos seriously don't do justice (low light, shiny scattered bits, dark bkgd, shaky hands = seriously sucky photos). She's been sleeping since—I just saw her running in her sleep using all four legs so I'm thinking that is a good sign neuro-wise. I'm supposed to make her get up and move around every 4 hrs through the night, so I'll see how she does at 3 am. :tired:

I hope it's OK to wait for the methocarbamol until then. It'll be easier for me to remember that way. (I think. I'm barely functioning right now; I really hope I don't have to drive to the e-vet!) :help:

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby JudyL » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:20 am

Sorry about the pee but WOW about whatever those things are in the pictures! So you think those are bladder stones? If so, no wonder she was uncomfortable!

When I misunderstood your first post, I'd wandered off in internet land and watched some scary videos of cystoscopy (sp?) with flushing out of bladder stones using super clear gel through the scope. It showed those rocks trying to flush out and falling back into the bladder over and over a few times until they came out. Why do we scare ourselves watching that stuff, like not being able to avert eyes from an accident scene?!

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby JudyL » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:24 am

After seeing all those rocks in the pee, I'd probably try to do something crazy like making my dog pee on some dark colored cloth so I could see if there are more. Don't do that, Nana, but I'd be very curious about her next pee also.

Has she ever passed stones before this?

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby QBert » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:26 am

Yikes. I wonder if maybe being rolled for the testing shook up those crystals and she was having pain from a temporary block of her urethra? Or even just having those scraping around all up in there....

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby MaisyPancakes » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:12 am

Oh man, I can't help but look at horrifying things, either. Basically anytime I google any condition and click "images," anything that comes up is 100x worse than I had ever imagined. I promise I won't watch that video or try to sift through pee! ;)

I don't believe she's passed this kind of thing before—she's had crystals w/UTI once in the past and I'm she had some the last round except that we only did a culture/sensitivity, but I haven't seen anything like this, ever, even when she was having those weird pee-pants episodes a few months ago. I'm still totally perplexed.

Much to my dismay, when I got her up for her every-4-hrs routine (I'm supposed to make her stand/do stuff to observe how she's doing), she was kind of back to how she was before I went to Walgreens. :/ Pretty owie, reluctant to eat, etc., although she did pee once more before bed. She may have also pooped but it was dark and 4 am and I was exhausted so I'm not totally sure. So, she got the methocarbamol right before bed.

She was supposed to get up at 8 and it's 9—she's awake and has tossed around and stretched but I'm having a hell of time getting her out of bed. :( She's tired, I think. (So. Am. I!) I think she is also wonky/owie enough to not make food a great motivator right now, like late last night. Her belly and other muscles feel relaxed and not all wound up in a tight ball like last night, and she's letting me massage all along her back and stuff. She also responds when I bother her hind feet, which is good. I gotta get her up though. I don't want to have to physically lift her because I'm sure I'll do it wrong and hurt her somehow.

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby MaisyPancakes » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:41 am

Approaching 6 hours (I'm supposed to move her around every 4) and I can't get her to get out of bed. She has moved on her own, like changed positions and rolled over on the other side, etc., and nothing really seems amiss, so I am not TOO worried, but I don't like not following doctor's orders. :( I tried lifting her but being on the bed and with her dead weight + worry about hurting her, I just can't pick her up like I was able to from her cushions yesterday. Argh!

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Re: Please, any input/consoling appreciated: MP not OK :(((

Postby Jen » Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:11 am

I know when I've had kidney stones that the pain comes in waves and I go from "omg I am going to die right this very second" to "I don't feel good don't make me move unless I have to" to "glad that's over, just a little sore." Maybe that's what is happening to MP and why she is going from bad to good to bad?


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