Toenails accountability thread

[Bettyna]

Ah I think I'm kinda getting the hang of this toenails thing.

What do you think?

What about the dewclaw? Do you do the same?

[QBert]

Those look great!
I treat dewclaws just like any other nail.

[whiteboxerboy]

Looking good, Bettyna!

[JudyL]

Those do look great. I think I'm seeing some receding of the quicks already. Call me a woman on a mission, I am determined! Even though my clippers were relatively sharp, I bought a new one to really get those little nips. I also bought a black file as suggested. The dogs were just so-so with the filing and will tolerate it fine, but it seemed to take longer than the nipping and whittling down with the clippers which they don't mind at all. My thumb nail, on the other hand, took a beating with the file when I was trying to hold their little feet and nails. In addition to the cuts shown in Bettya's drawing, I'm also taking off a little on the sides so that the whole end of the nail is slightly rounded to a dull point in the middle where the quick is. Kind of like sharpening a pencil, if that makes sense.

[Sabine]

Kind of like sharpening a pencil, if that makes sense.

I think that sums it up exactly! That's what I was thinking while working on Dax' nails.

[QBert]

In addition to the cuts shown in Bettya's drawing, I'm also taking off a little on the sides so that the whole end of the nail is slightly rounded to a dull point in the middle where the quick is. Kind of like sharpening a pencil, if that makes sense.

Yes! That's what I was trying to describe when saying "bevel the edges at the tips". Excellent analogy!

[Jen]

I suck at this:

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I try to do a foot or two while Bella is in her most relaxed state and 9 times out of 10 when I try to really trim a nail and not just pretend to trim, this happens. It makes me skittish, never mind her! I can't bring myself to trim more than a sliver at a time, which really doesn't do anyone any good.

I've never had to do Roscoe's until recently and they're all black and rock hard and very ouchy from his other ailments.

Help me, ObiwanQbert, you're my (dogs') only hope.

[QBert]

whoops.
I need to get these dogs fed but will be trying to either find or create something to help as a guide for solid black nails - there is a visual clue that you're getting close. fwiw, though, I frequently cut just slivers at a time, and the vast majority of dogs will settle and let you whittle away and then react if you set the clipper in a spot that will hit the quick if you complete the cut.

[Bettyna]

This thread is a revelation! I truly never knew how to trim their nails until now.

Even when Natsu went to the groomer, she comes back with nails that are cut straight across...

Thank you for providing so much help. I'm slightly obsessed now... Gonna try the techniques with Kobe too, although his nails are not long at all!

[maxs_mommy]

Oh Jen! That made me wince! I took Max to the vet today to get them cut down. They cut the nails straight across so I can work on the bevel. It's not so daunting when they're at least short enough that I don't feel like my whittling is unproductive.

[JudyL]

Maybe this site will help with those black nails, although I have to say that I've never seen anything look like this on the tip of my dogs' nails. Scroll toward the bottom of this link:

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/ClientED/dog_claws.aspx

I've read other places that say there's a groove on the underside of the nail that shows where the quick is. Sorry, maybe my eyesight is bad or the dogs here are too small, but I've never seen this either. Well, maybe on my German Shepherd I had as a kid. She was the only dog that ever had those hooks that are pictured too.

Another site describes more what I see on my dogs with the black nails. The outer covering of the nail is black, but clip off the end and the inside is first white, and then keeping nipping and the middle will start to have a gradually increasing dark/black spot in the middle of the tip as I nip it shorter, and then when I see a whitish or pink dot in the center, that's when to stop because that is the quick. It might look moist too. This was how my old vet described it to me, and she drew 4 pictures similar to the one below, and said to stop before getting to the 4th one. Note - my picture isn't intended to show the pink in the middle, only the size of the black dot increasing. The lightness toward the middle of the dot is only from the ink pen not covering evenly:

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Here's a site with a video where the tech describes this black dot too. Fwiw, only Ben gets hooks on the ends of his nails, the girls nails just keep growing out with a gentle curve but no hook, ever: http://www.ehow.com/video_4755667_poodl ... continuous

So Kara, what say you about the black dot theory?

[JudyL]

Re: the black dot theory, maybe this will help too - I took this picture of ChiChi's hind foot just now. These nails were trimmed 3 days ago with little plier clippers. I didn't get to the hind feet with the file, but you can see the beveling on the middle ones, and all of the nails show the black dot I'm talking about. It shows best in the outermost nail on the left side of the picture.

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[UpwardDog]

When I watched that and she said groomers don't do it that way, I was all "well the groomer who taught me does" so there.
Sammy and Trick call BS (well sam said something more polite and Tricky said something much more feisty. I'm paraphrasing) on her comment that having your quicks cut is like bumping your knee on the coffee table--no big deal and doesn't bother the dog. Sam says it's more like when the dentist gives you some quick zap of pain and then tells you it's no big deal. How much do you not wanna go to the dentist the next time?

I should do nails tonight I suppose but I don't wanna.

[QBert]

JudyL, thank you, you saved me from having to display my pitiful attempts at digital drawing to show the "dot" visual! Yes, that is a good way to gauge your safe zone, and ChiChi illustrates it beautifully! I spent the last two days annoying dogs looking for nails with enough growth to show the 'groove' 'hook' and 'dot' and didn't really have much to work with.

[QBert]

eta: I took these when she was sopping wet, fresh out of the tub - that's why her hair looks so bizarre.
this shot sort of shows the "black dot" - you can see the outer shell of the nail, the 'chalky' inner ring, and the 'moist' black dot showing. The first pic shows one nail untrimmed and one with the first sign of the 'dot' - I was able to shave one more slice off and bevel the edges from here. In the second pic, one more nip with the clippers and I'd have blood.

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Lucy (Chinese Crested)

lucytoesdot.jpg (46.21 KiB) Viewed 12800 times

[QBert]

this shows a 'dot' on a different dog. Her 'chalky' layer is much blacker but you can see the change from outer shell through drier matter into the 'live' black dot. You can also see the chalky underside of the nail from this angle and a very very thin layer of glossier black outer shell. If you're able to see that dry chalky looking stuff underneath the nail on your dog, and you always keep your clipper beyond it, you will reduce quicking incidents. On dogs who do form a 'hook', the hook is always beyond that stuff. You'll see there is a very thin line of shell between the underside chalky area and the black dot on the upper angle of the nail. One more sliver and I'd have bled her. On the further nail that's in focus, one romp on a tennis court and she'd have bled herself - that tiny bar of glossier black within the 'dot' is the very outer surface of the quick itself.

Bizzy (American Hairless Terrier)

biztoesdot.jpg (106.8 KiB) Viewed 12800 times

[OhDaniGirl]

Qbert, JudyL... you guys rock! This is so much easier to understand than anything I was able to find elsewhere. Tali and I thank you!

[Sabine]

Kara, this is such a valuable thread, would you mind if I moved it to the Nutrition/Care/Hhealth forum and made it a sticky?

[Jen]

Okay, I understand the concept of the dot and these diagrams and photos are very helpful. I've tried looking, but I am not sure of hat Im looking at. I'll have to try again.

How do you see the dot without contorting yourself or the dog? When I move the foot into position to see they look all pretzely and uncomfortable. Roscoe has been known to yelp if I bend his foot "horseshoeing style" and I have to bend in weird ways to see nails if I don't . And then there's the issue of needing a flashlight (or maybe just glasses ) to even see anything on a black nail.

So how much is a ticket from FL to PDX for one groomer? *sigh*

[JudyL]

Is Roscoe relaxed while you trim? Could you do it with him laying down on his side? I sit outside in the grass or on the lowest step and have them belly up in my lap. I lift their paw so it's in a position like a child raising a hand in school. I like to use the bright outdoor sunlight to shine through the light colored nails, and in general because I hate having to sweep up the clippings that go everywhere. That last picture of ChiChi's foot was with her laying in my lap, and her feet were sticking straight up so the bottom of that hind foot was there for the viewing. No contorting was necessary. My shepherd wasn't overly thrilled with nail trimming, but I could sit down next to her with her laying down and do a couple at a time.

[whiteboxerboy]

Maybe try having Roscoe lay on the side of the bed/sofa & you sit on the floor? That's how I've done Pi's nails - while he's either sleeping or almost asleep. Come to think of it, I think the perfect set up would be to have the dog lay on a picnic table on a bright, sunny day. Got any sun in PDX?

[QBert]

Kara, this is such a valuable thread, would you mind if I moved it to the Nutrition/Care/Hhealth forum and made it a sticky?

A sticky! *faints* yay! My first sticky!

[SherriA]

Jen, if it's any consolation, I quicked Oliver again last night. *sigh* I was using the neighboring white nail that I had already clipped as a guide for the length of the black nail (Oliver has some of each, plus some combo nails) and obviously that wasn't a good choice.

[LisaT_II]

This is a great thread. I am motivated to dremmel more off when I trim later this afternoon - I am trimming fairly regularly, but still losing ground because she's so squirmy, with dark nails, so it's hard for me to tell if I'm too short or if she's just being squirmy. But I know that the click clack of the nails on the floor is NOT a good thing!

[Bettyna]

I trimmed Natsu's nails again and while I didn't quick her, I cut one nail just a little too short. I can see the little red dot on the cut surface of her nail.

She's a total drama queen about it. She can't walk properly, she has to scribble around then sit in a huff to lick her weetle footsie.

Sigh.

[Paige]

because of this thread, we trimmed Soda's nails. Had a coworker help me. Anal-glanded in my office, stunk up the whole front office area.

I feel like this is your fault.

[Amanda]

I trimmed my guys today. I had the kids feeding them treats the entire time, so they were very happy. They are good usually, but this was more fun for them anyway. We are still clicking away on the hard wood floors, but I need a new dremel.

[MaisyPancakes]

This is awesome! LOVE picturing Oliver making sure that his toes are tucked under before napping. Hahaha!!

We Dremel, and I stop grinding when I think I can kinda see the dot of the quick, which usually results in a stealth-on-concrete MP for at least a few days. (I think it was Amanda who imparted the wisdom that if it's clickety clack on concrete, the nails are too long.) We use Cheese Board or Fish Roe Paste Board for MP to lick, and I inhale/take all the nail dust in my face. (I tried using one of those eye protection glasses but my face it too flat so they kept falling off.)

[LisaT_II]

Question - for those dremmeling, what speed do you use?

Indy was noise sensitive, so I started with 7,500, and I guess I just stayed there. With Jazz just now, I used the 15,000, and it worked a ton better - she was less squirmy and I was able to get a tighter grind.

Now, I just need to figure out exactly when to put on a new sanding drum.....

[Bettyna]

I've been trimming Natsu's nails maybe 2x a week and I think we are making good progress! Look shorter to you?