Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

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Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby connie » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:00 am

This from an e-mail newsletter that my vet clinic sends out; I find it interesting and would like to read the study referenced!

[color:#6600CC]In a new study in dogs, Zeel Homeopathic Arthritis Medicine is as effective as Rimadyl!

A study just released in the Journal of the American Animal Hospital Association compared Zeel to Rimadyl over a two month period. Rimadyl was found to be more effective in reducing pain and stiffness in the first two weeks, but by one month, Zeel was equally effective. By two months, Zeel was superior to Rimadyl. Zeel has no side effects and costs less than Rimadyl.

If your dog has been on Rimadyl long term, we recommend you try Zeel. Because Zeel requires 4 weeks to be effective, we suggest you continue Rimadyl for at least a month. If your dog's signs of pain and stiffness return after stopping Rimadyl, you may need to re-start it. Please contact us if you would like to start Zeel for your dog or for information on other options for treating arthritis.


Please remember that dogs rarely vocalize when they are in pain. Stiffness in rising or laying down, difficulty doing stairs, reluctance to play and limping are all signs of arthritis. The three pillars of initial treatment for arthritis are reducing weight to a healthy level with a grain free diet, Chondrotin Sulfate/Glucosamine supplements and Omega-3 supplements. We can now add Zeel to our second level of treatment for arthritis which also includes physical therapy, acupuncture, chiropractic treatments, medications, laser therapy and stem cell treatments.[/color]

Text from LePar Animal Hospital. http://www.leparvet.com/

For those not familiar with Zeel, it is a homeopathic combination remedy, ingredients listed here:
https://www.homeopathic.com/cms-global/ ... ode=QZEELT

I'm going to add it to Mike's supplements to help with the arthritis he has in his shoulders (which is due either to his tick disease or being tied out for long periods in his previous home). Will report back on results as noted! :)

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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby mraleigh01 » Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:39 am

Thank you for posting this!

For those who give, what dosage? I have 60 and 110 lbs dogs, both with HD. Also, can it be given with food?

Thank you again for this info!

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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby connie » Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:18 am

[quote=mraleigh01]Thank you for posting this!

For those who give, what dosage? I have 60 and 110 lbs dogs, both with HD. Also, can it be given with food?

Thank you again for this info! [/quote]

I am stopping at my vet clinic to get a couple of bottles of Zeel today, and I will let you know how the dosing instructions they give me differ, if they do, from my 50-pound dog to my 20-pound dog!

Given with food: I have given Zeel in the past, and I put the tablet in a very little spoon of rice pudding. I do not give it with a meal, but I don't rely on the dog to accept the tablet on its own. This is not a remedy that comes in pellets needing to be crushed, it's in a tab like aspirin. So I give it the way I would give aspirin: in a little bit of yogurt or peanut butter or rice pudding. :thumbup:

FWIW, I also give my older dogs a joint-support supplement daily. I too have a dog with HD, and I have three others with arthritic conditions in the elbows and shoulders. The Zeel is in addition to the joint-support supplement, not in place of it.

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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby mraleigh01 » Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:27 am

Thank you. The big dog has already had a hip replacement, and the smaller dog had ACL surgery in December.

They have been on Sprintime Inc's Joint Health for years so this would be in addition. I give so many supplements to my dogs (and myself) we must rattle when we walk.
I wish I could find a crushed version of Ester C. My dogs won't take the pill form no matter how I disguise it.

Looking forward to what you report back. Thanks!

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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby SherriA » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:26 am

Wow, this is interesting. I'm going to give this a try and see if it helps Jack. Thanks for sharing this Connie!
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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby UpwardDog » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:43 am

This is great news!
Sammy's sensitive tummy can't handle even glucosamine anymore so his back issues have had to make do with chiro.

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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby MaisyPancakes » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:21 am

Super cool news! I'd never even heard of Zeel. Thanks for sharing, Connie!

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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby Moemer » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:20 am

Good news. Elsie is stiff getting up, but otherwise very active. once I sort out a few things, I was thinking of trying out something for the stiffness.
Is Zeel different than Traumeel? It looks similar.
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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby Jen » Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:18 am

Is Zeel different than Traumeel? It looks similar.
That's what I was wondering. The Traumeel stopped working for Roscoe, and the Metacam is working so well, but something "safer" would be nice to try.

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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby connie » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:59 pm

[quote=Moemer]
Is Zeel different than Traumeel? It looks similar. [/quote]

Traumeel is used for relief of muscular pain; Zeel is used for relief of arthritis and osteoarthritis pain.

Zeel ingredients:
Silicea 6X 0.5 g; Symphytum officinale 8X 0.375 g; Arnica montana, radix 2X 0.15 g; Rhus toxicodendron 2X 0.135 g; Sulphur 6X 0.135 g; Sanguinaria canadensis 2X 0.113 g; Dulcamara 2X 0.038 g; Coenzyme A 6X, a-Lipoicum acidum 6X, Nadidum 6X, Natrum oxalaceticum 6X 0.010 g each; Cartilago suis 2X, Embryo totalis suis 2X, Funiculus umbilicalis suis 2X, Placenta suis 2X 0.0005 g each.

Traumeel ingredients:
Aconitum napellus 3X (Reduces pain after injury) 30 mg; Arnica montana, radix 3X (Reduces swelling and bruising) 40 mg; Belladonna 4X (Reduces swelling and pain) 75 mg; Bellis perennis 2X (Treats bruises) 6 mg; Calendula officinalis 2X (Stimulates healing process) 15 mg; Chamomilla 3X (Soothing pain relief) 24 mg; Echinacea 2X (Immune support) 6 mg; Echinacea purpurea 2X (Stimulates healing process) 6 mg; Hamamelis virginiana 2X (Relieves bruised soreness) 15 mg; Hepar sulphuris calcareum 8X (Stimulates injury healing) 15 mg; Hypericum perforatum 3X (Relieves pain) 8 mg; Mercurius solubilis 8X (Reduces swelling) 15 mg; Millefolium 3X (Treats minor bleeding) 15 mg; Symphytum officinale 8X (Relieves joint pain) 24 mg.

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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby connie » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:07 pm

My vet clinic's instructions for dosing with Zeel tabs:

Dogs 1-20 lb., 1 tab twice a day
Dogs 21 - 60 pounds, 2 tabs twice a day
Dogs 61 pounds and over, 3 tabs twice a day.

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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby mraleigh01 » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:00 pm

Perfect. Thank you so much. Can't wait to run up to the health store and get some.

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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby BarksaLot » Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:33 pm

I found this on the House of Nutrition site. Is this what you all were talking about? They had it under the name Heel's Zeel. 100 tabs was $18.99 - wonder how many you'd give to a 60lb. dog?

I cut & pasted what they had on it:
Zeel 100 tablets

Each 300 mg tablet contains as active ingredients: Silicea 6x 3 mg; Arnica montana 1x 0.6 mg; Rhus toxicodendrom 1x 0.54 mg; Sulphur 6x 0.54 mg; Sanguinaria canadensis 3x 0.45 mg; Cartilago 4x 0.3 mg; Embryo 4x 0.3 mg; Funiculus umbilicalis 4x 0.3 mg; Placenta 4x 0.3 mg; Dulcamara 2x 0.15 mg; Symphytum officinale 8x 0.15 mg; Coenzyme A 6x 0.03 mg; Natrum oxalaceticum 6x 0.03 mg; NAD 6x 0.03 mg; a-Lipoicum acidum 6x 0.03 mg in a lactose base.

Each 300 mg tablet contains as an inactive ingredient: Magnesium stearate

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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby Colleen » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:11 pm

Thanks for posting connie :) Dylan has severe spinal issue, ED and had ACL surgery. The horse supplement my sister has him on currently is working fantastic for him and without it Dylan can barely walk. Its good to know about a homeopathic treatment that can be used in addition in the case he does start having issues. Thanks!

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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby JudyL » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:12 pm

Barkalot, yes, that is the product. Connie's post above says dogs over 60 lbs should be given 3 tablets twice a day. I wonder why the dosage for a 60+ lb dog is more than for an adult human. The bottle I have says 1 tablet 3x/day taken sublingually.

Connie, thanks for posting this article. My DH has been on Celebrex for arthritis in his back and thumbs for years, and before that he took Vioxx until it was taken off the market. With our new health insurance and not knowing the new cost to us, he decided to stop taking the Celebrex to see just how bad he would feel. He's been off the Celebrex for about a month, and to his surprise, his back isn't hurting as much as he expected. However, his thumbs are hurting enough that he's mentioned getting cortisone shots, and that's something I'd like him to avoid.

I called our local health food & supplement store and they had a free, full sized bottle to give as a sample! They don't carry it, but the sales rep left this bottle for when someone finally inquired. We'll give it a good test. The store manager said it was expensive and that's why they don't stock it. Their price would be ~ $18, but that's very reasonable compared to what we were paying for the Celebrex.

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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby Moemer » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:01 pm

interesting... my vet had max taking traumeel for joints, as well as ubavet. Honestly, I'm not sure how much it as helping.

I have bookmarked this to try on elsig, for sure.
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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby yintzy » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:56 am

You can buy on amazon for like $10 a bottle.

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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby SherriA » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:37 am

I was ordering supplements and added a bottle of this to my order for about $12 I think, so it's really cost effective if it works!
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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby EllaBella » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:39 am

more details on the study: http://harmonyvetcenter.wordpress.com/2 ... cal-study/.

Not that it's a totally useless study, but it wasn't placebo controlled *or* blinded. Seems like if they were going to bother to do it, they could have blinded it and added a placebo arm. Pain medication is super subjective in people, and even more so in dogs, so it seems they really should have done this. Trial design fail. sigh. (Yes, one of my major pet peeves is when they bother to do a trial, but then don't bother to design it well enough to control for such obvious issues, ruining the point of actually doing a trial).

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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby connie » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:17 am

[quote=EllaBella]more details on the study: http://harmonyvetcenter.wordpress.com/2 ... cal-study/.

Not that it's a totally useless study, but it wasn't placebo controlled *or* blinded. Seems like if they were going to bother to do it, they could have blinded it and added a placebo arm. Pain medication is super subjective in people, and even more so in dogs, so it seems they really should have done this. Trial design fail. sigh. (Yes, one of my major pet peeves is when they bother to do a trial, but then don't bother to design it well enough to control for such obvious issues, ruining the point of actually doing a trial). [/quote]

That's too bad! I'll definitely keep my dogs on the Zeel and look to see if I notice any effect from it, but I'd like it a lot more if the study HAD been properly done. :(

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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby Sabine » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:08 pm

I'm very glad to hear about these results. Being German, I've been familiar with the Heel company's products for a very long time.

In Germany homeopathic remedies are regulated like any other drug (including some being prescription only) and many are covered by health insurance.
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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby Kathleen » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:08 pm

I just ordered some of this for Skye.
A friend I do agility with was telling me they have had great results with her Cattle dog. She said specifically with joint mice. Which is the big problem with Elbow dysplasia.

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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby Jen » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:49 pm

I stopped by a store I was sure would have it, but they don't. So I guess I'll be ordering it too. Just to be clear. . .you give it with the Rimadyl (or Metacam in my case) for a month to get it up to full strength and then stop the prescription med?

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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby connie » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:54 pm

Yes, my vet clinic recommends keeping the dog on the drug for a month, and letting the Zeel get established in that time. You could also taper off the Metacam, going to an every-other-day dose for a week or so, when you have been giving the Zeel for 4 weeks.

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Re: Zeel is as effective as Rimadyl--

Postby SherriA » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:50 pm

I've been giving it to Jack for about a week now. No noticeable improvement yet but I don't expect to see that for awhile.
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Zeel (bldwork required) and Traumeel Gel safe if ingested?

Postby JansGirls » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:13 pm

Hi,
Ok my 1st post here ever in a forum like this so please bear with me. I'm very interested in learning about alternatives and health related topics regarding the care for my dogs, 3 rescues-all girls, ages 15, 13.5 and 8 years of age.
Pertaining to the Zeel, I can't thank you enough Connie for posting this dosage info...I've been looking everywhere and found it here. I too have Zeel for my 13.5 yo BichonX to try for her arthritic discomfort, like some of you. I started giving to her yesterday and was unsure about how to administer so have opted to dissolve it in .4cc of water, stir well and syringe .2cc dose (from 1 tab) inbetween her lip and cheek--I was told it shouldn't be touched with your fingers, but, not sure why that is?
The package insert reads under Recommended Duration of Use reads - "liver function parameters should be montitored if used for more than 4 weeks" and under Side Effects indicate the Sanguinaria canadensis (bloodroot product I think) which can increase liver enzymes. I will get bloodwork done but, because of this I'm leary now as it sounds like what's required when a dog takes nsaids--regular checking of liver enzymes with bloodwork. Does anyone have a dog who's been on this long-term?

Also was wondering if anyone has tried the traumeel gel and know if it's safe should the dog lick and ingest some of it? We do not have a homepathic Vet in our area so information regarding these products have been difficult to come by locally.
Thanks,
Janice

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Re: Zeel (bldwork required) and Traumeel Gel safe if ingested?

Postby connie » Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:38 am

Hi Janice-- welcome to the board. :)

The 'don't touch' guideline for homeopathic remedies is mostly for the pellets, and it's because the pellets are not coated with anything and can absorb oils or sweat from the skin if handled. The Zeel tabs are not quite so delicate, and if your hands are clean and dry, it probably wouldn't matter if you put the tab in your hand briefly.

I don't know about dissolving it in water. I either put it directly into my dog's mouth and then have him swallow by massaging his throat and neck for a minute -- the tab doesn't taste bad or bitter and most dogs will swallow it easily -- OR I crush the tab with the back of a spoon and then put the powder into the dog's mouth, again getting him to swallow.

As for the liver function monitoring, I really think that applies only if the dog has liver problems. If you do a blood test after using Zeel for 30 days and you find that the liver values in your dog are normal and pretty much unchanged from the dog's baseline, I don't think you have to continuously monitor it. I will ask my vet about that when I see him tomorrow. But this is a homepathic remedy, which works on 'energy' or 'vibrational' medicine principals, and it does not contain any significant doses of any of the herbs/ingredients.

As for Traumeel gel, nothing in it will harm a dog if it's ingested, but of course what the dog licks off is not going to be any use on the skin, so discouraging the licking or preventing the dog from getting at the gel is always best.

Hope that helps!

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Zeel and Traumeel-thanks Connie :)

Postby JansGirls » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:38 am

Hi Connie,
Thank you so much for responding to my questions--the info you have provided helps alot.

I would really appreciate hearing what your Vet says about the constant monitoring of blood work too, if you find out.

I read a post from someone on another list who wrote it's recommended when using these products, "use for 6 weeks, then take 2 weeks off them, then 6 weeks on because it is a complex homeopathic, and it is possible with constant use over a long period of time, for symptoms to arise for a condition that the dog does not have, due to the nature of homeopathics". Not sure what this means unless an example would be the elevated liver enzymes?


Are you giving both the traumeel and zeel at the same time, or separate Connie (I forget if you are using both)?

Thanks again for responding,
Jan:)

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Re: Zeel and Traumeel-thanks Connie :)

Postby JudyL » Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:50 pm

Not related to dogs, but I thought I'd report my husband's progress so far on the Zeel. He's taking it for arthritis in his spine and thumbs, and started on this about 3 weeks ago. He hesitated to tell me, but after the first day his back seemed improved and he also said it smoothed out his attitude.

His thumbs, OTOH, are worse, but this is from job-related repetitive tasks. He really injured them about a week and a half ago, went to the Dr for x-rays, then on to an ortho surgeon. No cartiledge remains in his left thumb and about 10% in the right. He got cortisone shots in both thumbs and may need surgery later on.

Now for the interesting development. His psoriasis is GONE! He has had bad patches on the underside of his forearms and on both knees ever since I've known him. The only times it has disappeared were when he had chemotherapy for his cancer, and when he agressively scrubs off all the plaque, applies nasty ointments, and sits in the summer sun. He has done nothing, and it is GONE. He's been off the Celebrex for about 2 months (he had the psoriasis long before ever starting on that med), and other than the addition of the Zeel, he's had no other changes to diet, drugs or routine. We're both so surprised by this that he decided to call the company today. They'd never heard of this effect either.

Just had to share.

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Re: Zeel and Traumeel-thanks Connie :)

Postby UpwardDog » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:39 pm

Wow Judy, that's awesome!


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