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Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:33 am
by Yankee
Some time ago, after Maggie died, I saw a site with the most beautiful goldens for sale. I wrote the guy asking when he might be breeding again as we weren’t quite ready. He wrote me early this week saying he had another litter if we were interested. (take a look at “newenglandgoldens.com”). He said he would set up an appointment time Thursday (today) for us to come see and “get” the puppy.
I was a little confused as to how he could have the third litter that I had seen on the site so quickly, so I sent a list of questions to him. His response (which includes one of my questions in the second sentence) was as follows.:

Good morning Bob
Let's start with this first before I wish to continue on doing any business engagement with you and your wife, as I am almost ready to cut this one loose.
Not to offend - but where do the puppies come from? -i.e., who's the breeder (name)? Where were they born? Why are they sold through you rather than by the breeder? I think what i'm really trying to ascertain is that they are really reputable pups and not from a puppy mill.
And yes, it does offend. It most certainly does. What if I were to ask you about your family background before doing business with you. From there what if I continued to question you on why they had you, was there any neglect or abuse in your family or simply why do you exist in the family? Do you see how sickening this can get to work with someone that has certain ideas in their head or preconceived notions? It's nasty isn't it? Makes my stomach turn.
Not one person over the years has ever been unsatisfied with the health, temperament and overall quality of our golden's. I think the champion pedigrees of our Goldens and our kennel speak for themselves. We have some of the best goldens in the world. The partnership with my breeder is a long standing relationship in which I have the utmost respect for her, the quality of our goldens, and the care for our kennel. She is the only one I work with, does not have a computer, internet, camera, e-mail, etc. I am also a trainer of the pups. We are one team. The rest of your questions on our internal operation are irrelevant to what I wish to engage conversation with you on. The respect I have for my partner, the care of our parents and kennel, why I do what I do in this role, etc. is something that I am simply too sensitive on to continue questions on in this area. Yes, we all know there are is a lot of unethical and uneducated people in the breeder industry. We are not one of them and yes, I can get easily offended when asked to defend my partner, myself or our service model or why I exist in this partnership. If you can accept this, I would be happy to answer questions specifically related to what pups I have available, appointment, etc.
Sincerely,
Craig.

In the meantime I called a vet in new Hampshire and asked if they knew anything about this guy, They did not,. I then called a breeder in the town next to his. The breeder had never heard of him either, though he said he had heard that there was a puppy mill breeder in that town (not necessarily him).

There is a breeder about 20 miles from us that I have known about, but not known, for years (she is listed as one of the top three breeders in the state). No puppies were available on her site. Because she shows so much, and is so active with goldens, I thought I’d have nothing to lose. I called her and she didn’t know anything about him either. We had a long talk about goldens in general.
I told the guy, based upon his response and my phone calls, to go pound sand. No puppy for us:(.

A few hours later I received a call from the breeder I had called here in CT (I hadn’t left my number, I guess she used caller id). She had called around, and found that he was considered a puppy mill and pointed out the clearances they didn’t have etc. She said he gets his puppies from upstate New York, and sells them out of a one room storefront next to a dance studio.
We talked some more, and then told me she had two puppies out of a recent litter that were available if we wanted one. (This is good because she has a waiting list and it looks like we just jumped right in). I asked if we need to go for an interview or fill out a questionnaire and she said she knew enough about us already from our coversations. Just send her a deposit. The puppy will be ready a week or two after Christmas

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:31 am
by SherriA
Oh wow, that guy sounds like trouble! I'm glad you told him where to get off, especially since you've not had it confirmed that he's not ethical.

And hooray for a new puppy! I'm so excited for you! Many pictures will be expected. :)

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:43 am
by Moemer
aaakkkk!!! glad you asked questions! (and congrats on the new addition!)

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:44 am
by Amanda
Me thinks he doth protest too much. What a tool. Glad you found him out before bringing home a puppy from him. And congrats on finding a better breeder and puppy so soon! So many puppies right now. It's awesome! Yes, pictures please!!

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:18 pm
by emmas_mom
Good on you for asking the right questions and going the extra mile to find out more about scumbag puppy mill guy. I am surprised, though, that a top breeder with a waitlist isn't wanting to meet with you for an interview or have you fill in a detailed questionnaire before making a final commitment to selling you a pup, telephone chats notwithstanding. On the other hand, I've never met you and I'd adopt a dog out to you any day. In fact, I'll send Eddie to you right now.......

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:31 pm
by JudyL
Total tool. Any reputable breeder should be glad to discuss all of your questions, show you how the pups are raised, the kennels, pups and the parents, if they are on premises, health testing and certs, plus a whole lot more. Good for you that you pinned down the info on this guy. I'm looking forward to lots of puppy pictures.

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:59 pm
by Emily
Wow - that guy sounds like someone to stay far, far away from! Good for you for being keen on that! Yay for a new puppy!! How exciting!

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:04 pm
by Calypso
I've asked breeders plenty of questions that could tick them off and they've always understood where I was coming from and answered the question well.

New puppies are exciting and yours should help with any post-Christmas doldrums you might otherwise have. :)

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:06 pm
by connie
Wow, his reply had me roaring with laughter! Like the way he compared dog breeding with a person's own family history -- you didn't actually offer to buy his sister or anything, did you, Yankee? If not, why would he drag that nonsense into his reply?

I've known a lot of breeders, of all stripes, over the 25 years I've had and worked with dogs. I can't imagine getting such a silly and irrational reply from any of them. I'd say you found his weak spot, as your inquires later confirmed.

Congrats on the new puppy, BUT -- will you have only one Corgi now? I think that may need to be addressed. Shall I find you some top-notch Corgi breeders in your area? I'm happy to help! LOL!

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:18 pm
by Yankee
Jean - you can send Eddie! Quite frankly I was shocked she didn't want more too. But we did talk a lot, she knew exactly where we lived, and we knew some common people - including 2 people who had her dogs. I'm not going to argue it - she has a great reputation.
Connie - I would have laughed if it hadn't immediately meant I wasn't going to go get the puppy the next day. I would have told him how stupid his response was but there was no sense going any further. I would probably have gotten sucked in if he gave a reasonable explanation as to why he wasn't a puppy mill! Yes - one corgi. The retriever is my wife's pick - tho Ollie was her heart dog. I might also have looked at shih tsu's or French bulldogs. I always liked the retrievers tho.
All - thanks for the kind wishes. The breeder said she'd have to get some pictures, but I don't have high hopes. I think she co-owns the father because on K9data.com it shows a picture of the father (Lazydazericoshea) owned by another breeder. The father looks pretty if you want to peek at him!

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:01 pm
by maxs_mommy
Wow, how defensive! I'd have told him to take a hike too. Glad you were able to do some research on the guy and it sounds like you've found a far better solution with a good breeder.

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:13 pm
by Yankee
I am going to have to hang tough this time with names. I always wanted a dog named Fido (Abe Lincoln's dog). Barb has said no.
I will now push for Phil.
If that doesn't work - maybe Harry or Hairy.

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:49 pm
by emmas_mom
Jean - you can send Eddie! Quite frankly I was shocked she didn't want more too. But we did talk a lot, she knew exactly where we lived, and we knew some common people - including 2 people who had her dogs. !
Well, that sounds better - and she just may have phoned those people you knew in common before offering you one of her pups - I know several breeders who do informal checking around like that (and, in fact, I've done it myself for adoption applications).
Oh, and Eddie is packing his bags. And he'd like me to remind you that he believes in Santa and will be packing his rather large Christmas stocking to hang up Christmas Eve. Just so you know.....

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:38 am
by connie
I'm guessing that the breeder has a pretty detailed contract in place, too, that Yankee and Mrs. Yankee will be signing. :grin: In rescue work, we place a lot of stock in the references -- we once rejected someone in my BC rescue in part because she wouldn't provide any references but family members. If a breeder knows good things about someone from other dog contacts, that counts for a lot. And people who give those references to breeders tend not to do it lightly.

I like 'Fido.' Such a classic, underused name nowadays! :rofl:

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:54 am
by Calypso
I actually like Fido, too. Especially since I now know it was Abe Lincoln's dog. It's almost a hipster sort of name - almost, but not quite trendy. :)

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:07 am
by SherriA
Oh, Phil is perfect! I love that :) Harry/Hairy is pretty good too.

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:18 am
by QBert
Nice dodge. What a tool indeed. Bye, Felicia! Hello, Fido!

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:40 am
by Emily
I vote for Phil too! I don't know why, I just think a Golden named "Phil" would be adorable :tongue:

I still can't get over how the first breeder was so asinine with his response. That is a huge red flag - I would think any truly reputable breeder would welcome such questions and would answer in a way that wasn't hostile. You're questions were legit - except to someone who is less than reputable, I guess.

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:11 pm
by Yankee
I'll probably never get puppy pictures. Here's the father (if it works).

http://www.sapphiregoldens.com/sapphire ... 010002.jpg

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:12 pm
by Yankee
Nope!

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:17 pm
by Yankee
I guess the link works. Here's the father. We bought a lot of toys yesterday.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q69 ... 87458b.jpg

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:18 pm
by JudyL
That'll be a fun way to start the new year! Have you informed Chloe yet? lol

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:24 pm
by Amanda
Handsome fellow there. Can't wait to see baby pictures!

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:13 am
by SherriA
Daddy sure is handsome!

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:59 am
by Yankee
Judy - I am a little concerned about that. Ollie held his own - tho he was dominant until the last year or so. Chloe used to drag Maggie around by the ear until I finally got her to stop, but poor mags would turn her head sideways as they passed. Chloe still gives those scathing looks to anyone who displeases her.

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:51 am
by SherriA
You might be surprised by Chloe. I've often been surprised at how tolerant most dogs are with puppy antics, even (or especially?) dogs who don't really have much use or patience for adult dogs or other dogs in general.

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:48 pm
by Claire
I am THRILLED for you and Barb!
Was reading the first guy's response and my mouth dropped open..... how defensive! Coincidence his name is Craig? i.e. Craig's List!

Can't wait to see puppy pix and vicariously smell puppy breath and rub puppy belly!

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:14 am
by PofiMia
Ohhhh, a Golden puppy!!! Sweetness!

You may have been on a rollercoaster, but it stopped at the right point. That other guy is a tool!!!

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:21 pm
by Yankee
Well, I got a picture of one of the puppies in the litter via e-mail but cannot post it for some reason. It's awful hairy!!

Re: Puppy roller coaster - long

Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:09 pm
by JudyL
Are you able to post it on facebook? One of us could probably put it on here for you.