Mandatory Obedience Class for NY State?

All kinds of dog talk here!
yintzy
No, I don't have a life!
Posts: 5881
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 4:38 am
Location: Austin, TX

Mandatory Obedience Class for NY State?

Postby yintzy » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:31 am

I just found out about thisProposed Bill . I guess it wouldn't apply to NYC since the population is too big. But basically it is requiring mandatory obedience classes for all dogs in order to be legally licensed in NY State. There is also mandatory spay/neuter (Ugh!) but more loopholes than the CA and FL bills.

While this seems like good news for dog trainers. I'm sure there will be stipulations on training material for state licensing classes. It scares me, thinking that people who know nothing about dog training can mandate what is trained. Also, as we all know, there are many dogs who are not suitable for obedience classes but are fine pets. What happens to these dogs? Do they have to fly under the radar or will they get euthanized? I can just picture, these obedience tag licenses being toted on metal collars around the state. It's scary and then do these trainers have to become certified through the state, and who regulates this? I also see a huge liability here. What happens if a dog took your class when he was 5 months old and he's now 7 and the owners may or may not continue with training and the dog now has some issues and he bites someone. Would the trainer be liable. My new insurance covers such instances now but if there is a state mandate on obedience classes, I wonder if they will...

kelpies4me
Active member
Posts: 585
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:51 am
Location: NY

Re: Mandatory Obedience Class for NY State?

Postby kelpies4me » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:15 am

This is possibly one of the most inane things I have ever heard of. Who is going to pay for this? Who will be the magistrate on this? Who keeps track of this? I am glad you brought this to our attention- I think I will contact the pro-genitor of this bill.

I love it when legislators have nothing better to do (with our tax money) than to think of ways to spend money. NY (along with most other states) is in such financial trouble now, some how, I think mandatory dog obedience classes (geez, I can't even say that without smirking) will be somewhere below, say, string trimming around light poles.

connie
Built-in Forum Feature
Posts: 11207
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:53 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Mandatory Obedience Class for NY State?

Postby connie » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:28 am

I think the idea behind this is a good one: that people be responsible for their dogs and not neglect the social aspect of the care of the dog.

The implementation part sounds like a boondoggle.

Why not just require a CGC test completion along with a rabies vax for a license, in jurisdictions that license? The CGC test is actually a pretty good tool, and I was under the impression that it was developed for just this purpose: to let people know that a dog was not a menace to society. :/

Not all dogs will require training classes to pass the CGC, and some will require several obedience courses. It leaves it up to the owner how much he/she wants to do formal training, but it addresses the end result: that your dog have decent enough manners to pass that fairly simple test.

And with the revenue they get from that, the AKC could finally stop licensing puppymills!

Okay, now I'm just dreaming. LOL

User avatar
SherriA
Built-in Forum Feature
Posts: 14059
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:52 am
Location: Bethel, CT

Re: Mandatory Obedience Class for NY State?

Postby SherriA » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:22 am

At first glance, I really like the idea. Every dog should have some basic training (and having grown up with dogs that had no training at all, I feel pretty OK saying that). Of course, with more thought its obvious that this really isn't a good way to deal with it, for all the reasons mentioned and I'm sure all lot more that I haven't even thought of.

Still, I do like that someone is at least recognizing the fact that pet dogs do need some kind of training for their benefit and for the benefit of the community. I just can't imagine how to mandate something like that effectively.

Hmmmm...maybe we need to license people not dogs! Before you can have a dog you have to pass a test to verify that you'll be a responsible pet guardian. Yeah, right.
Image

kelpies4me
Active member
Posts: 585
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:51 am
Location: NY

Re: Mandatory Obedience Class for NY State?

Postby kelpies4me » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:31 am

Why not encourage responsible pet ownership by reducing, or removing the license fees with proof of "obedience class attendance"? Why make it a law that no one can/will enforce? I have seen utterly hundreds of dogs go through obedience classes that were absolutely no better for it (sometimes worse). You can't legislate upstanding citizenry- you can only hope to lead by example, and make it lucrative to do so.

sammy
No, I don't have a life!
Posts: 6322
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:32 pm
Location: Western Canada

Re: Mandatory Obedience Class for NY State?

Postby sammy » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:03 am

Yikes.

yintzy
No, I don't have a life!
Posts: 5881
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 4:38 am
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Mandatory Obedience Class for NY State?

Postby yintzy » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:10 am

Yeah, I do think in the ideal world, it would be wonderful but just not possible and there are too many questions about what's to be taught and restrictions placed on people. What happens if the dog doesn't 'pass'. All of my students pass their class but they all have individual things to work on. And what happens if the dog can't get a license? It doesn't make any sense.

EllaBella
No, I don't have a life!
Posts: 6054
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:44 am
Location: raleigh, NC
Contact:

Re: Mandatory Obedience Class for NY State?

Postby EllaBella » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:32 am

Wow...sort of a good intention in theory to encourage training, but not really all that logical, and a scary thoguht regarding implementation.

I like more along Connie's idea--reduced or waived registration fees for dogs who have passed their CGC (similar to the reduced fees for spayed/neutered animals). This would make *way* more sense if you're trying to encourage and reward responsible dog ownership.

Not to mention, most people don't bother registering their animals anyways, and this would just encourage that.

And my dogs have never taken a formal class, yet they are trained. Ok, Fraggle's in training, and honestly I think all dogs are always works in progress. Not to mention I *couldn't* have taken a standard dog obedience class with Ella the first 2-3 years I had her, since she was too reactive. Would that make her unlicensable? (sometimes making up words is fun)

And there's also, like Yintzy mentioned, the issue of who would make the curriculum/certify the trainers? I was just looking at my city's park & rec, thinking about applying to teach dog training part time through them, but they already offer a dog training class--and the instructors use 'leadership techniques' to get instant 'compliance' from dogs. They state they don't use shock collars, but that's all they mention on their site about methods, and the owner was a K9 officer. So this is what my city (we all already know they're idiots, but whatever) deems appropriate. If they were to sanction/approve/insist on my dogs going through that kind of training, there would be lawyers involved on my part.

connie
Built-in Forum Feature
Posts: 11207
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:53 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Mandatory Obedience Class for NY State?

Postby connie » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:28 pm

[quote=kelpies4me]Why not encourage responsible pet ownership by reducing, or removing the license fees with proof of "obedience class attendance"? [/quote]

That's an excellent idea. Here in Chicago, it costs a lot less to buy a dog license for a s/n dog than it does for an intact dog; wouldn't it be possible to do that for proof of obedience training?

Just the general commandment to train your dog is also kind of scary though, with "trainers" like Cesar Millan presenting such an idiotic and dangerous routine that so many people think is "training." :help:

User avatar
Sabine
Site Admin
Posts: 19354
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 12:42 am
Custom Title: One Dog Girl
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Re: Mandatory Obedience Class for NY State?

Postby Sabine » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:18 pm

I like the idea, but useful implementation is near impossible.

And I'm very much in favor of giving perks to people who have well trained dogs.
Image

User avatar
Tatyana
Yes, I do have a life!
Posts: 3685
Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 3:11 pm
Location: Far Rockaway, NY
Contact:

Re: Mandatory Obedience Class for NY State?

Postby Tatyana » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:14 pm

I like the idea of implementing more CGC testing.

Its hard for me to picture how the license stuff would work, because I only know local NYC license related stuff. It costs 8 bucks to license a s/n dog, 11 an intact one. And no one checks licenses, most dogs don't have them (or owners get licenses once and dont renew). It seems that they would have to enforce license laws first before offering obedience stuff in relation to licensing.

User avatar
Aubergine
No, I don't have a life!
Posts: 5178
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:34 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: Mandatory Obedience Class for NY State?

Postby Aubergine » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:43 pm

I see this as one of those laws that, even if it passes, will be so hard and expensive to regulate that it won't have much effect.

I agree that CGC testing would be a better idea.

Claire
Yes, I do have a life!
Posts: 3176
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:28 am
Location: Central New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Mandatory Obedience Class for NY State?

Postby Claire » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:40 am

So let me get this straight..... dogs in congested areas like NYC would be exempt, but dogs in upper NY state on a farm, running freely with their horses, happily visiting with neighboring dogs would be required to go to obedience class? I can't wait to tell my friend in Ogdensburg.
This makes no sense.
If it's still a PROPOSED bill, you in New York should launch a phone campaign to your legislators against the way it is currently written.
This will ultimate do more harm than good, with people thinking twice before taking in rescues. The shelters and rescue groups will be overwhelmed.
Not only are towns and insurance companies initiating breed bans, but now Big Brother is mandating training!
What next? Mandated pre-school and finishing school for New York children?


Return to “Our Dogs Online General Topics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

cron