(Sorry for the length...)
I reaaaaaaally want to try nose work like some of you have been doing, but since there are no classes locally, my trainer (W) and I are trying to sort of doing it on our own until she finds a way to get certified, soon. W read all that she could find online about how to teach us nose work--I think she was using a Dog Star Daily article on it for the most part. So, in the meantime, MP and I are her guinea pigs--and I'd really appreciate it if you guys could share some tips.

Today, we tried it for the first time in the enclosed and empty "play" room of a pet supply store, with just me, MP and W. We used food as the "bait." We first tried my cheese (I didn't bring anything that stinky because I had somehow assumed we're using essential oil swab ), but she had trouble focusing--so W got some fishy stinky treats, and she seemed to get it right away. Is that what one should do, when a dog has trouble "getting" the game--to go higher on the stinkometer?

We're guessing MP was able to "get" it much quicker with the fishy treats because they were stinkier and more desirable than my cheese. But (for reasons I can't remember) when she "found" the fishy treats, we threw a party and gave her *different* treats as reward. I'm wondering now if I was supposed to let her eat the treat she found. What's the right way?

It was kind of hard at first because MP didn't know what we wanted her to do. For a while, she'd stay with me or W or go back and forth between us, or sniff around and mind her business but not really interact with the boxes.

I'm not sure if this is relevant, but we'd been playing a similar game for a while at home (before I found out about "real" nose work) where 1) she's shown/allowed to smell something; 2) put in a stay while I go hide it/them; 3) released with a "WHERE DID IT GO??" and she goes nuts looking for whatever it was that I just hid. She's super good at *that* game. We also have done hide-and-seek with me and Acorn taking turns hiding. Anyway, I sort of wondered if having played a quasi-similar game in the past made her even more confused that we're doing "something similar but not really"--or should that history not matter at all?

This question is not relevant to us right now, but I'm curious: I think I read that, in a class setting, you only get one dog out at a time, and the others are supposed to be crated or away from the activity. Do the classmates (human and dogs!) who are waiting their turn ever get bored/frustrated? Or, is one "session" super quick and waiting is not a very big deal?

Thanks for reading this far! Since I don't what I'm doing, I'd love any input from you guys Thank you so, so much!

I will let others chime in since I've only taken one class, but from my experience:

- it's ok to use the stink Whatever makes the dog motivated - it's supposed to be a fun and enjoyable game for the dog so whatever you need to make it work!

- we had them take the treat from the box and then threw some into the box as well when they found it (jackpot-style) and whooped it up with lots of cheering.

- I think it's ok that she's a bit confused right now, just don't correct her (let her find out how to do it on her own). But really your game sounds almost like nosework. We were having the the dogs get really excited by first smelling the food, then having them watch us put it somewhere, then going to get it - but it gradually got harder by them not seeing where we were placing it. So it sounds pretty similar to what you are doing.

Have fun!

nana, i played the same game as you with b & l at home.....except i put them behind closed doors, hid X number of treats around the room/house, let one of them out & said 'find it'. they loved it, too!

very cool that W is working with you guys on this AND that you found an empty room to work in, somewhere besides your home. well done!

good girl, MP! now, go find it!

Totally missed this! I'm on my iPhone right now, so can't type lots. I'll respond after nosework class this morning.

Totally agree with what catherine said. And yes, you let her eat the treat that she found. She gets to self-reward when it's food rewards. When you eventually move to odor-only, that's when you'll run in and feed her right next to the odor.

Right now, you're just teaching her to trust her nose. Are you using boxes? The boxes are super-important. Even as you get to more advanced levels you will always go back to boxes, so you want to build "box drive."



A big part of learning about nose work is watching other dogs, so you learn how scent travels and how different dogs work the scent. So, no, it's never boring or frustrating! It's nice to have your dog put away, so you can concentrate on the dog that is working. You're supposed to be paying attention, so it's not like you're just sitting around twiddling your thumbs. And it's crazy fun to watch any dog do it, not just your dog.

One session is super-quick, but depending on how many dogs are in class it might be a while 'til you get your turn. Our last class was 90 minutes with 8 dogs, and there was time for you to work 3 separate times for 3 times each but it was never boring. This session is different because we bought "cards" good for 6 classes and you just show up when you can.

Theoretically, you should be showing up each week but today we only had 2 people. We got lots of turns and were finished in an hour because the dogs had worked really hard in that hour. And Bella is currently at my feet WIPED OUT. Her brain was really working. The 3 turns to do 3 finds each in 90 minutes is plenty, especially when they're just learning.

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Maybe this could be helpful for you? I wrote this up for someone (catherine maybe?) and Kathleen reminded me of it a couple of days ago:


First session with a week of practicing this at home 3 times during the week

5 boxes in a non-distracting area, lined up
stinky treats in one of the boxes (which is labeled so that treats always go in that box)

Dog on leash, walk past the boxes as they investigate until they go for the one with treats. Praise and reward IN the box. That is, open up the treat bag in the box and feed while his head is in the box.

Repeat 2 more times.

Second session with 3 practice sessions over the next week

5 boxes in a non-distracting area, scattered a little bit
stinky treats in one of the boxes (which is labeled so that treats always go in that box)

Dog on leash, walk past the boxes as they investigate until they go for the one with treats. Praise and reward IN the box. That is, open up the treat bag in the box and feed while his head is in the box.

Third session with a week of practice

5 boxes in a non-distracting area, scattered a little bit, the one with treats can now go on an elevated surface (not too high). The elevated box should always have treats at this point. You are teaching the dog to look up, since they tend to focus on the ground. So you don't want to discourage looking up by having the box be empty.

stinky treats in one of the boxes (which is labeled so that treats always go in that box)

Dog on leash and off leash, walk past the boxes as they investigate until they go for the one with treats. Praise and reward IN the box. That is, open up the treat bag in the box and feed while his head is in the box.

Fourth session with a week of practice

It was this week that most of us started saying a "cue word" since the dogs were totally keyed into the boxes and knew what was going on! But I think Kathleen mentioned that if we're using it, we should be aware that we'll probably change it when we get to finding odor and not food. So don't pick the word that you know you're going to want to use. I used "find it" and will probably use "search" or "seek" when I actually get to the point of teaching a real cue. NEW NOTE: I think we actually ended up with NOT using a cue word, just something to release the dog to go do her thing. So I just say "Let's go!" I don't think you actually need a cue word; they seem to know what's up.

5 boxes plus a variety of other items (they had us each bring one item from home, such as picnic basket, cat bed, guinea pig house, etc.) The first time the treat gets put in the box. The next couple of times, the treat goes in one of the other items.

Again, reward IN the item.

It was either after the third or fourth session that they said we should start practicing in a non-distracting outdoor environment on concrete or cement, not grass. Behind stores with empty parking lots, tennis courts, etc.

Fifth session
Multiple items and boxes and elevations. I think at this point we were putting the food and empty boxes elevated.

Reward in the box.


Practice a few times a week for 3-5 finds per session. I was doing 3 all the time, and Bella can count. She started taking a reeeaaallly long time to find the food the third time, probably because looking for it is just as rewarding as finding it, so she didn't want the game to end. laugh

I think it was after the fifth session that we stopped using a box at home and just went to hiding the treats.

You can never do too much box work, so bring out the boxes every once in a while and go back to the basics. Don't get too difficult too fast. It should be errorless learning without too much frustration.

When the dog is on the leash, you want to be careful to just walk back and forth like you're out for a walk with him. Don't cue too much with body language. When he's off leash, same thing, don't hover near the treat or obviously stare at it. But if he's having difficult, you can walk past it which might encourage him to walk past it and catch the scent.

What you are doing for fun with MP where you have her sniff something and then go find it. Is actually match to sample and slightly different then what we are doing in nosework. They are both used in detection work, but with the sport of Nosework it is more about teaching the dog to use it's natural hunting ability.
It isn't wrong by any means just different.
I am taking classes in LA as well as teaching and really enjoy watching the other dogs. So the time goes fast and it is a pretty relaxing atmosphere.

OMG! Thank you all for the advice, and SUPER duper thank you, Jen, for the how-to write up--that's amazing! I you!!!!! I'm going to read it through over the weekend and will probably have more questions later...

Can't wait to try this again with MP! This is super exciting. Thank you so, so much!!!

Hey guys, sorry for the dumbness--can you help me with a couple questions?

So, just so I know for sure, please tell me if this is the set up:

• The boxes are all closed in the same way
• One box has a closed treat bag inside, and MP gets to watch me put it in (and mix up the boxes so she doesn't remember which one)
• When MP finds the treat box, I open the box for her, then open up the treat bag, then let her take treats from the treat bag that is still in the box.

One time, she sort of mach bonked her nose into the box and helped herself...but I need to be quicker and do the opening the box and all that for her, right?

Thank you so much!!! This is superfun!

* The boxes are all closed in the same way


Doesn't matter. For now, I wouldn't close them at all. Just leave the flaps up. The boxes don't even have to be the same. And FWIW, Ron doesn't even bother with keeping the treat in the same box. By the end of our weekend with him, all the boxes were greasy and food-stained. I think that if you're going to use the same box every time, they should be teh same to avoid learning by sight, though.


* One box has a closed treat bag inside, and MP gets to watch me put it in (and mix up the boxes so she doesn't remember which one)


She can watch or not watch. I think we watched the first couple of weeks but by then the dogs "got it" and didn't need to see what was going on. And yes, you try to "trick her" by mixing up the boxes and pretending to put treats in each one.

* When MP finds the treat box, I open the box for her, then open up the treat bag, then let her take treats from the treat bag that is still in the box.

That works. But you don't have to worry about her helping herself. Just make sure she eats the treat in the box and you don't pull her from the box (either lure her away with a treat or remove the box from her).

Glad you're having fun!

Thanks so much, Jen!

Oh, very cool--I like that I do not ruin the game by "contaminating" multiple boxes by accident.

OK. So, she can watch or not watch, but she doesn't get to smell the thing she's looking for--is that right? I know this is a separate question, but knowing now that all the boxes can be all greasy and stinky made me wonder if I have to let her know what she's looking or in advance, or if dogs just know and that's the frickin' point.

Thank you so, so much!

No, she doesn't smell in advance. Like Kathleen said, that's a whole different behavior.

Right now, you just want her finding the treat. I have actually switched to using the same treat every time because I turned Bella into a major scavenger by switching out reats. When I asked Ron about why she was such a counter surfing, basket overturning, cabinet opening scavenger now, he said, "Well, what have you been training her to do?" Me: "find the food" Ron: And what is she doing? ME: finding food He said to switch to using only one type of treat for nosework.

So I switched to only using beef heart so that she wouldn't think that "food smells = go find them" all the time. It's only beef heart that she gets to look for and self-reward. Okay, I'm not really sure what the heck that has to do with your question. It seemed like it was going to be relevant when I started, but I seem to have forgotten what my point was going to be.

Back to you. . .They can tell where there's the most scent. I think it's called "most salient." So there's a lot of stinky greasy spots on the boxes, but they can tell where the actual treat is because it's the most stinky. Don't do this now, obviously, but they were saying that for the really really really advanced dogs, Ron has been known to run a q-tip all along the wall around the room and then throw away the q-tip and the dog has to convey "There's no q-tip here." For a dog, finding the actual bit of beef vs the spot where beef used to be is no big deal really.

Thanks so much, Jen!

I can totally see how Bella turned into a professional scavenger--even when I do the "go find ____" game with MP, if the "thing" is food, she keeps looking for it after she found everything. That's a great idea to only use a certain type of treat for nose work.


It's totally relevant and totally helpful--I think you anticipated my asking about it. Woohoo!

I see--the "most salient" thing makes sense. Doy!

The q-tip along the wall is crazy hi-fi!!!!

Thanks so much, Jen!!!

I have more questions...Jen, pweez?

I've been practicing with the same set of boxes (mine look the same), with one box that the treat always goes into. It's OK to use mix it up with different sets of boxes (same or different), and different (or rotating) treat boxes...is that right? Or should I not be changing all that up right now? I'm pretty sure this goes under the "most salient" thing I keep going back to, but I wasn't sure if this mixing up = more advanced and I'm skipping steps!

Also, in a class, do people just bring their treats in their own pouch and stick it into the designated class treat box? I've been using a specific treat pouch I put in the box at home, and am wondering if it's OK to keep using this same one...I'm guessing that the pouch part isn't supposed to matter much? (Oh god, is this yet another "most salient" question??)

Thanks so much for putting up with me!!

Sorry I'm late responding! From what I understand, Ron mixes up the boxes and doesn't care which box has treats and the others keep one box for treats and the rest empty. Kathleen & Teah have one box that is used for treats/odor pairing and one box that is odor only and the rest they leave empty. *I* think that it probably doesn't matter if you inadvertently put treats in the "wrong" box but you might want to try to keep them separate just to make it easier for now??

We bring our own pouches to class, but when we forget we borrow one and it really doesn't matter to the dogs as far as I can tell. But now we're just putting one or two treats on a little tray (the top of a butter container).

Hope that's helpful! Hopefully Kathleen will see and answer better.

Jen! You are super awesome! Thanks so much for the info! Cool that you are now doing the butter tops instead of pouches. Thanks so, so much!