A vet in our area claims that many other veterinarians are noticing high ALT in dogs who are being fed Orijen. Has anyone else here on the forum have dogs with the same issues with Orijen and high ALT? Or have you heard of this with high protein diets?

Haven't heard it. Jack has been eating Orijen since I could first get it in the US and his bloodwork has been fine.

No complaints from any of my clients in that regard.

This might be of interest though:
http://www.idexx.com/animalhealth/analyzers/snapreader/lr0905final.pdf

I just checked out the Orijen website FAQ it seems that the answer to "Is Orijen Senior suitable for my senior dog?" is now: "An answer to this question will be posted shortly".

It is here: http://www.championpetfoods.com/faq/#health-topics.5

I do remember reading on the whitepaper than high protein diets are better for senior dogs to prevent muscle wasting.

I am so very confused!

Thanks for the IDEXX paper, Mordanna! But it's confusing me more!

I just called Champion Pet Foods and left a message--they are very good about returning calls so I will post their feedback shortly.

I printed this out and I'm going to attempt to read it.

FWIW, I have heard it mentioned anecdotally that dogs on raw diets often have ALT levels a tad bit above the high end of the range on blood tests. I think my Shiri has that, and since it's only a few points high, and since it's the only liver value that's anomalous, I am not concerned about it. I'll see if I can find any info to back up my vague recollection here.

In much the same way that some raw-fed dogs (like my Pippi) have higher BUN readings on blood tests, without a corresponding rise in creatine, a diet that contains more accessible protein than typical kibbles do will produce different results on blood tests. My vet told me that this does not mean that the dogs are ill, but that the test ranges should be re-visited, since what is deemed "normal" is the result of decades of tests conducted on dogs fed typical kibble diets.

I agree with this 100%. Current "normal" values are based on generations of predominantly highly-processed, grain-based kibble fed dogs.

Dr. Dodds and Dr. Wynn did a study and found that some raw fed dogs even have slightly elevated creatinine values that are perfectly normal.
http://www.agsba.com/Doddsnutritionissues.pdf

This is also why it's an excellent idea to have routine bloodwork done on a dog every 1-2 years, so that you know for sure what is "normal" for that dog. My Pip has shown slightly high BUN values ever since she was a puppy (she went on a raw diet at about 14 months of age) -- and she's 11 1/2 now, doesn't have any kidney disorders, and is in excellent health. But if I didn't have that baseline of tests to reassure me, I might freak out when I saw an elevated kidney value in a senior dog.

I recommend yearly bloodwork to all my clients, twice yearly for geriatric dogs (the oldest dog I've been working with turned 20 in April!!! )

Not only is this an excellent way to build a good health record for future reference, but I have also found that many vets who aren't exactly happy with people making choices for their dogs that go against mainstream recommendations (e.g. homemade diets, no annual vaccines, lower dose or no heartworm drugs) are much more willing to cooperate if they see that those owners do care about their pets' health and don't just do the above to save money.

Thanks for the posts on "normal values" for raw/high protein diet dogs. Of course the values would be different now with diets being so much better!

Champion Pet called me back and they are going to have their nutritionist speak to the vet that I mentioned in my first post.

They assured me that there have been no reports of elevated ALT in a large number of dogs and that they have not heard of any veterinarians reporting consistent elevated liver enzymes in dogs fed Orijen.

I love this company and their philosophy! They also told me they will be releasing treat products soon!

I'm looking for answers for a high ALT level in a 6 month old boxer. I've been feeding her Orijen since she was 8 weeks old. I took her in for spay a couple of weeks ago and her ALT was 383 which is just under 4 times the normal level so the vet recommended not spaying her until her ALT level came down. The vet thought maybe Dorsey got into something and had a bacterial infection so put her on Clavamox for 10 days. I took her in yesterday for retesting and now her ALT is 425 so the vet recommended a different antibiotic for 2 weeks and also recommended milk thistle and vitamen e. In doing research I found your posts and now I'm wondering if it's the Orijen that is causing the high ALT level and now I don't know what to do. Should I take her off Orijen to see if that decreases the ALT? Does anyone have any recommendations or answers for me?

My havanese had high ALT, AST and BAT results after eating Orijen. He also had crystals form in his urine. Our vet said that it was likely the high protein diet so we switched him and started giving SamE and Milk Thistle supplements. He is doing better now. Could it have been the Orijen??? Who knows, he's better now and that's all that's important!

I've been feeding Orijen since its been available here and Jack's bloodwork has always been fine. He's due for his annual physical next month, but I don't expect anything out of the ordinary.

I disagree that "protein" specifically is the issue here. Dogs are carnivorous animals with a body designed to handle a diet of primarily meat, fat and bone.

There are different types of stones, caused by different circumstances, so I can't comment on what exactly was going on, but my guess is that there were a number of other factors that contributed.

Funny how these posts are from first time forum posters.

Personally, I am really sick and tired of vets picking on Orijen. There are a number of other grain-free kibble brands out there that don't get picked on...e.g. Nature's Variety Instinct, Natura Innova Evo, Wellness CORE, Grandma Lucy's Truth, Fromm Surf and Turf, Sold Gold Barking at the Moon--just off the top of my head.

What is it about Orijen that vets seem to hate so much?

If you're feeding something besides the Iams/Science Diet group and there's a problem, many vets will blame it on the food. It's just easier that way!!!

That might be related to the fact that threads about the topic here on ODO show up in search engine results when people search for certain key words.

There have been some shenanigans going on in the past where employees of pet food companies posed as pet owners asking questions (I specifically remember one incident where a Timberwolf employee was involved), but generally that's not a common thing, especially if a forum is well moderated.

You are right Mordanna. I did a Dogpile search looking for causes for high ALT levels. That search brought up the subject "High ALT and Orijen" and that hit home for me because Dorsey has been on Orijen since she was 8 weeks old. I'm just trying to figure out why my 6 month old boxer's ALT levels are high. The vet keeps thinking it's environmental but there is nothing that Dorsey is getting into. I work from home so I'm able to supervise her 24/7. I am hoping her ALT level is high due to the Orijen so I've transitioned Dorsey away from Orijen. I'll have her blood work done again in 4 weeks. If her ALT is still high well I guess that means it's not the Orijen. If it's not the Orijen the vet wants to do an ultrasound and bile acid level tests to see if the liver is functioning normally. I hope it's the Orijen because I don't want anything to be wrong with her.

I have a boxer who has been on Orijen for more than a year. I have tried rotating in different kibbles but always go back to the Orijen as it works best for her. Her coat is soft, skin not dry, no skin or environmental allergy flare ups and easy yard clean up. I will continue to feed Orijen as it is very obviously what works best for my dog. My vet looks at my boxer and tells me to keep feeding whatever it is I am feeding because she looks good...even though the vet has never heard of the food I feed!