Blaze is 4 months old now (5 months on 9/4) and weighs about 24#! He's not fat at all! Lilly is 2 yrs and 3 months and only 20.5-21#. She only weighed 7# at 4 months. Blaze is also taller than Lilly (Blaze is 16" and Lilly is 15")! He's just a lot bigger all over...his head/snout & legs are so thick and his legs are also very LONG. I went to my parents' house a couple weeks ago, and my dad said Blaze looks like a Border Collie. Dh and I are starting to wonder if some other breed got to the breeder's female or if she purposefully bred another breed to her Sheltie or if there may be another breed somewhere in her line. To me, he does look like a Sheltie, he's just SO big for his age! That could be why we got him so cheap (we paid $500 for Lilly and only $150 for Blaze where she originally wanted $300 for him). She also moved (we knew she was moving) shortly after she sold all of the pups and her web site is no longer available. I would email her, but I accidentally deleted her email address from my contacts and it isn't on the contract (which, but the way, she didn't even have me sign a copy of it, but I did sign one when I got Lilly) and it would probably bounce back or we'd never hear from her anyway. Ugh! Not that it will change anything...I wouldn't give Blaze up no matter what. It just seems really fishy! I just hope he doesn't end up having any serious health problems. Here are a couple recent pics of him. Please let me know what you think. I don't think I'll ever buy from a breeder again! If we can't adopt from a shelter/rescue, we just won't have anymore dogs!

Here, he was sitting on my lap (and I'm an average-size woman).


You can sort of see how he compares in size to Bear.


Lilly & Blaze...taken just a few minutes ago



And, for fun, here is a pic of Lilly around the same age. I know it's kind of hard to compare them though.

Wow, he really does look big, doesn't he? I don't know much about shelties, other than they're high on my list of dogs to have one day. I do remember there being a pretty big range of sizes when I went to watch Yintzy and Whisper at an agility trial a few months ago.

Whatever he is, he sure is cute!

Well.... some shelties are on the bigger side. Some as large as collies!!! He looks sheltie to me, but I'm no expert. Did you see the parents? If they were large shelties that would explain it. I know with every younger sheltie I've either owned or fostered, I always seem to wonder, at some point, if they might be "part something else" because they often look "unsheltie-like" when they are young. Even my mom has questioned this about my dogs as well!

I don't see any border collie in that face. However, I'm wondering if she may have lied about his age. I brought in one to rescue that the breeder said was 9 months, but we figured she was a year and a half. Next time you go to the vet ask them to look at the teeth and tell you how old they think he is.

I wouldn't doubt his parentage until he was at least a year old. Puppies go through major awkward stages, especially at five to six months old.

Also I think its a little early to be bashing the breeder. I feel it wasn't exactly responsible of her to let him go as early as she did (if i recall, he was 6 or 7 weeks when you got him?). And perhaps for not providing you with all sorts of contact information even though she was moving, in case you ever have questions or anything goes wrong, or even to take him back if there was a major problem and for whatever reason you couldn't keep him anymore. That i feel is not responsible. And I don't feel that you should write off all breeders just from a bad experience with one, there are many out there who strive to be very open about their stock, do health testing and performance events to prove quality of the stock and are really selective with placement, and are always there for the owners when they are needed. Of course adopting from shelters is absolutely essential and saves lives. But I'm just saying, don't write off all breeders

But I think he needs time to mature before really deciding whether he's a purebred sheltie or not. By the looks of his skull structure, I'd say he looks pretty Sheltie-like (I'm not an expert on the breed though). But I have also seen a large range of sizes, and it really depends on the stock. And again, I'm no expert but it looks like Lilly is a petite girl, from her height and her graceful features.

I have to laugh, he does look somewhat border collieish in some pictures. But, he is probably just over breed standard for a sheltie. Does he *act* like a sheltie? I think you can tell most (when questioning a breed) about the dog by how it acts, moves and behaves.

He sure is adorable, regardless!

ETA: I do know an oversized sheltie. When I see his owner at flyball, I'll ask her how tall/how much he weighs. He's huge, though!

I have a friend who had a huge Sheltie. He was about 20" at the shoulder. I also know a person who has the huge Sheltie's half-brother and he's teeny tiny. I guess you just need to wait him out. He's CUTE though!

There is a sheltie (and I can confirm he is purebred) that is the same size and runs in the same agility class as my Smidgen, who is a confirmed collie. Oversized shelties are not uncommon, especially if someone is not breeding for show and are not watching their sizes throughout the pedigree (something sheltie breeders must do for many generations).

Personally, he looks like a "companion quality" (aka not show quality) big Sheltie to me.

He looks like a Sheltie to me! There are humongous Shelties -- I've owned a few and known a few more. My Rudy is almost 18" at the shoulder and weighs 42 pounds and is not at all overweight. My Sander was about the same size. Both my Pip and Sunny are over 16" and weigh 32 - 35 pounds.

Blaze may just be a *really* oversize Sheltie! His muzzle and head shape are Sheltie, not BC. If you look at some pics of BC pups you'll see what I mean. He's not a stellar conformation specimen of the breed -- he's got hound ears, his eyes aren't very almond, and his stop isn't clean -- but he's VERY cute. Can I have him? I love those oversize boys!

Did you get AKC papers with him from his breeder?

Lilly weighed 7 pounds at 4 months? Holy smokes, I've never had a Sheltie that petite. ! Blaze has got some serious bone to him, Lilly looks like one of those feathery girls that just float over jumps.

Yes they can differ enormously. Here is a photo of Clover with my Jazzy when Clover first came to us. I think they have an extremely different body type, musclature, face structure and even the coats differ tremendously. Both are purebred AKC shelties. At this point Clover is the same size as Jazz, but beginning to outweigh her quite a lot (even though I measure food and feed them seperately!!!).

He looks a lot like my friend's BC Puffin. She's huge. Puffin is a rescue but she's a sheltie. Her mom is a sheltie person and swears she's all sheltie. You can see her and Austin, who has a similar shape in this link
http://www.patchworkshelties.org/dogs.php?d=b

Whisper is 4 years old. She measures 15.25" at the withers and weighs just under 17 lbs. I forget what she weighed when I got her. She was pretty small.

Yep, I agree - I see lots of Shelties here in L.A. that don;t necessarily fall within the desired range of the breed standard (13-16 inches if I remember correctly).

My Quigley is 16.5 inches at the shoulders and we often see Shelties that are much bigger than he is.

We had a totally ginormous Sheltie when I was a kid. He was big enough that the cocker spaniel he used to live with before we got him could walk underneath him.

Humongous or not Blaze is adorable!

The woman I co-teach puppy classes with has two shelties from the same breeder. One is the standard size but the other one is named Jumbo Jet. He's 21 inches, the same height as Havana, and weighs somewhere around 40 lbs. The breeder just looks at him and shakes her head whenever she sees him in agility. (He does well, he's just jumbo.)

I dunno (Scratching head), you may have one of them thar Texas Border Shelties rawt thar. He shore looks like a keeper to me! Ruffysdad

Texas sheltie
I've seen plenty of over sized shelties. I kind of like 'em bigger and with more bone.

Thanks everyone! I can't wait to see how big he ends up being. Right now, we're guessing he'll be in the 40# range, but I guess we won't really know until he's fully grown. Silly us, we thought Lilly was big for a Sheltie! Even the breeder said she was/is. I used to stay in contact with her until recently. We saw a Sheltie once at Home Depot that was a TINY fluffball. Are there irresponsible breeders who breed "miniatures"?? Lilly and Blaze are from the same breeder. They have the same mom but different dad. Lilly's dad died because of the tainted dog food last year. If I recall correctly, their mom is 14ish" and one of their dads was 13ish and the other was 15ish (I just can't remember which). We dind't go see the parents either time, which is stupid on our part, but I think she should have required us to (unless she had something to hide). The breeder doesn't give us the AKC registration papers until the dog is spayed/neutered, but since we don't have any contact info for her, I don't know how we're going to get them. Well, I won't write off all breeders, but I would just never feel comfortable buying from this one again. So yeah, Blaze is just a companion quality Sheltie. That's fine by me though! I just love him (and my other furbabies) to bits!

Technically in the show ring, the allowed size is between 13 and 16 inches. The fluffball could have been from a show line. I HAVE seen some absolutely tiny shelties in the show ring. Most pet-bred shelties are bigger than that though.

There isn't really any such thing as a "miniature" Sheltie, but yes, there are breeders who breed, as much as they can, for certain sizes. For example, it's a sure thing that Blaze's sire has oversize Shelties in his line and he may even be significantly oversize himself; a breeder who wants small Shelties would not breed to a dog from that particular line.

Size is a really tricky thing in Shelties and it's almost inevitable that oversize Shelties show up in even litters from show parents (who by definition are in-size themselves). It's not necessarily irresponsible to breed for a smaller-sized dog, unless the breeder who does that is, for instance, breeding in Pomeranians for that purpose.

Another thing to consider, and this is explained in books like "Sheltie Talk" which has size charts in it, is that there are different rates of growth in different kennel lines in this breed. Blaze may have gotten all or nearly all of his growth very early, which means that he will not be much taller, as an adult, than he is now. Some other lines keep growing until they are 12 - 18 months of age. It's one of the mysteries of genetics.

You may be able to locate and contact the breeder through the AKC. It's worth taking a look at their website for that info. Do you have papers on Lilly, and have you registered her?

I would not let this experience cloud your judgement of breeders. You chose a breeder who absolutely is not breeding to better the breed, that's quite clear, and you're right to want nothing more to do with her; but if you go through a breed club, and find a responsible breeder who is titling his/her dogs and doing genetic testing, you can certainly wind up with lovely pet-quality puppies from a breeder who stands behind his/her breeding. IMO, the breeder you found was a BYB in every sense of the word.

However, your dogs are darling, and how they got here is no fault of theirs!!

I've seen lots of big shelties like Blaze, but he's adorable, nonetheless!

Yes! Rate of growth can differ quite a lot as well. I've seen that. Some get big at a young age and others just grow larger more slowly. Even experienced breeders make mistakes. You often see them needing to let go of dogs they kept for show who either stopped growing early, or just kept growing.

I think your puppy is an absolute cutie!!! Enjoy that nice shorter puppy coat!!! I love the big thick coats, but the upkeep of the shorter haired puppy/teen/adolescent (remember it can take two years to come in!!!) is soooo much easier!