I am trying to train Jake and Zoe "target."

The lady at flyball told me to use a lid and put it on the floor and click and treat for any movement towards it and then further and further, etc. Then, once they reliably go to it on their own, call it target. This will eventually help with getting the ball "target" I think.

Anyway, I don't think they are getting it. Zoe, maybe a little. Jake, likes the treats but is not associating it with going towards the lid. He sees me get the clicker and immediately goes into a sit and gets all excited and does whatever he can for a treat, not associating what brings him success. I can't hide the clicker... it would only work the first time.

Any advice?

Start with the target in your hand. The dogs will be more likely to investigate something in your hand, especially if you've spent a lot of time training them "leave it" for stuff on the floor.

Put the treat on the target so the dog is more likely to return to it to look for more goodies. Once you put the target on the floor, when the dog looks or touches the target put the reward on the object and then toss a treat away from it so the dog has to move out and then chooses to come back on his/her own.

Have about 10 treats counted out in your non-target hand and ready to quickly place on the target for a reward. (You may actually need to practice this on your own before you work with the dogs.) Once the dog understands that target = goodies it should take a minute or less to go through those 10 treats.

Keep practice sessions short. 1-2 minutes with Jake, then 1-2 minutes with Zoe, then back to Jake. Put the non-working dog out of the room.

When I was at chicken camp we worked a lot with targeting and if I can get a chicken to target, you can get Jake to do it. I am confused about using targets with flyball training, though. Maybe that's what they're doing to encourage a faster run back. Let me know what you do with the target because I'm really curious!

What kind of treat do you suggest I use that will stay on the lid when I hold it besides PB? I could have it on a spoon and reapply fast.

Also, when I do it on the floor, do I do a treat on the lid and throw one away? Am I still clicking too? I need to take coordination classes hehe.

I am under the impression, I am teaching the term target. Then the word target will be used for the ball in the box... but I could be wrong. Honestly, I think Jake will just go for the ball when he sees it. Zoe... well, maybe we'll put a treat in the ball for her (let her see us do it) and then she'll get it. We're training her now, but she may not continue because although she has taken an interest in balls lately, it is not like Jake's love for balls.

Cheese whiz. On the target, that is.

The reason you teach the target and not the ball is that the ball will not be visible easily, first of all, and second you don't want him to step on the ball, or just get on the box any which way, but run up on the box with all four feet.

I'm surprised they didn't explain a "Swimmer's turn" at practice. It's probably the most important thing your dog will learn.

Here's a team with sort of kind of swimmer's turns - notice how the dogs pretty much run over the box rather than slam direction into it. The big dog that runs first is a little hard to see doing this, but he's about as good as he can get.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nKh591lWMQ

This is Ben. He does NOT do a swimmer's turn. Notice how he jumps right on the box with two feet, with his back feet still on the ground, and then has to turn around in several different movements. If he were going fast ( ), he'd develop shoulder problems very fast, and it also would slow him down considerably from his full potential.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79j8-Q7UAUc

You shape the swimmer's turn by putting the target on a box or a ramp that looks kind of like the box, and teaching the dog to run up so he can get all four feet on the ramp/box. Sometimes you do this by simply having a large enough ramp that it's natural for the dog to run up to touch the target.

Sometimes you shape the turn by targeting to one side of the ramp, blocking the middle path, and luring/calling the dog around from one side of the ramp to the target on the other side, up and over whatever's blocking the middle path. Ideally you want the dog keen as fire for that target! That's where clicker training the target comes in.

You can get a dog that's not that interested in balls trained very well to target to the box, and then shaping the retrieve of the ball is simple. Many people say they'd almost rather not have a dog that's keen for tennis balls, though it helps motivate the dog to hold the ball coming back.

Hope this helps!

OK, so let me make sure I understand what I am going to do. 1 dog and me in the room. Hold lid in my hand with a dab of cheese whiz on it. Jake licks it, click and throw treat to side. While he goes for treat, I put more cheese whiz. He comes back, me click when he licks and throw treat. Repeat a total of 10 times. Then do it with Zoe, right?

Do I say target as he does this? If not, when do I start sayng it?

Then, once he has had 2 or 3 sessions of this, I start putting the lid on the ground and do the same thing?

I'd like him to understand target by our next practice on Sunday.

How many times a day should I practice ya think?

Becca... they mentioned the swim turn (and we probably will alter it for Zoe so her back is ok) but we did not do any training on the box yet. We just did some recalls with the jumps, target, and coming to me and grabbing the treat (like he'd do after getting the ball). I did not realize how treat motivated Jake is .

Yup. I would repeat until he's volunteering to lick the lid without even needing the treat. Then say, "Target" or whatever your cue will be. I used, "Hit" because that didn't sound like any of the herding commands they were likely to hear.

I would definitely not progress to sending him to the target until he's committed to touching it without needing the lure. When you put the lid on the ground, it's helpful to stand/crouch with lid in front, him to one side, with your hand on his collar, and treat in the other. Um, you need a third hand for the clicker. Well, by this time you will be agile enough to hold clicker and treat in the same hand, right?

Anyway, "send" him (but it only just out of reach to begin with), and do the same thing. If you do it right, he'll start out on one side of you, cross in front to touch the target, and get the treat slightly behind you from the other hand (or you can drop it if they were pretty clear about your needing to do this). As before, click when he hits the target, shape the end of the movement by luring with the treat. It's not "pure" clicker training in my opinion if I understand what you are describing correctly, but it should work fine.

Later you can use the cheese whiz as a reward for running well if he's not into tug toys and such.

Tomorrow, if you are still confused, I can take a video of this with Zhi. She's not target trained yet so it will be the same as where you are. She's super quick though so I should be able to progress to the next step, which is really hard to explain but easier to show!

I'll just add that you don't have to have a treat actually stick to the target. I'll use a kibble or whatever and just have it between the target and my thumb. The important thing is that the dog looks to the target for wonderful things and it will be out of your hand pretty quickly.

I wouldn't do too many repetitions of the target in any one position. No more than 4.

A video would be wonderful!!!!!!!!!! Thanks!

Ok, today I did cheese whiz on the lid in my hand and they started to get the hang of it. I did one dot of it and it lasted a while because when I clicked and treated, they went for the other treat.

Becca, can you post the video of what I should do next so I do it correctly .